Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 No offence, but I wouldn't feel safe if my chassis was straightened. That's just me though.It was the front spar, which is the bit that extends from the main chassis (floorpan) forwards and the engine mounts to. A properly straightened chassis is absolutely fine. IF DONE PROPERLY. There are numerous jigs for it, and proper methods. A badly straightened chassis... sjoe. One word. Crab...
Reg Lizard Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 And that's when you find out how good your insurance really is...when you claim! Personally I won't accept their opinion to repair the frame! I have had one successful ruling in the past against an unsurer (MVA) by the Ombudsman- striked them out on 3 aspects. They eventually after 6 months paid, but at that stage I had moved along to another insurer. Report them to the Ombudsman...and dont accept anything you are not comfortable with. Miway good on you, I hope you go down!!! Sies man!!!
Reg Lizard Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 BTW to the OP...are you the youngster that went down at the finishing line? Colliding with the dumbass Golf driver! It happened 10m from where I was standing...it looked horific!
HBO Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 In your policy wording the basis of settlement will read as follow: "If specified property is accidentally lost or damaged we will pay OR MAY CHOOSE to REPAIR OR REPLACE it", or something similar to this. The only way you can do this, is to get a 2nd and 3thd opinion, perhaps from the manufacturer as well, confirming that it is not safe to ride on a repaired frame. The onus is on you to prove this. Miway are well within their rights to repair it.
Tumbleweed Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 In your policy wording the basis of settlement will read as follow: "If specified property is accidentally lost or damaged we will pay OR MAY CHOOSE to REPAIR OR REPLACE it", or something similar to this. The only way you can do this, is to get a 2nd and 3thd opinion, perhaps from the manufacturer as well, confirming that it is not safe to ride on a repaired frame. The onus is on you to prove this. Miway are well within their rights to repair it. Would the customer be within his rights to demand to know the qualifications of those who are effecting the repairs?
HBO Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 In any event, in this case it was not the "panel beater" who said it product should be replaced, but the dealer who would be making a new sale. Ek se maar net....... You can argue this both ways. Are Miway and the repairer 100% bias. Miway saving some $ and the repairer making some $, which won't be the case if the bike is replaced. ..sê ook maar net.
Patchelicious Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Would the customer be within his rights to demand to know the qualifications of those who are effecting the repairs? The customer is well within his rights to demand anything that has been agreed upon in his/her policy wording.
Patchelicious Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 And that's when you find out how good your insurance really is...when you claim! Personally I won't accept their opinion to repair the frame! I have had one successful ruling in the past against an unsurer (MVA) by the Ombudsman- striked them out on 3 aspects. They eventually after 6 months paid, but at that stage I had moved along to another insurer. Report them to the Ombudsman...and dont accept anything you are not comfortable with. Miway good on you, I hope you go down!!! Sies man!!!Why not? Have you seen the damage? What are your carbon repair qualifications? How long have you been building carbon frames? ps: Its not their opinion....
WR 1.0 Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 A few examples here comparing Vehicle/ Car repairs with Bike/ All Risk repairs. They work slightly differently.All policies usually states that the Underwriter (Insurer) has the option to Repair, Replace or reimburse or use any combination thereof if there is a claim.On a Vehicle, the item is insured for current value, which is why there is always issues/complaints when Insurers wants to use second hand parts or "alternative" parts (where your car is no longer under warranty). You can't exactly fit a new door to your 15 year old Mazda 323 (that's not putting you in the same position you were in previously)Your Bike however is insured for replacement value (new for old) as it falls under the Non Motor Section of your policy.The Insurer still has the option to repair, replace or pay cash, but usually ends up replacing due to the nature of the product. This is the first time I've actually heard of a claim where they ask for the frame to be repaired.
HBO Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Would the customer be within his rights to demand to know the qualifications of those who are effecting the repairs? absolutely. If you have your vehicle repaired, there is always a guarantee that comes with job and paint is always lifetime. If the manufacturer gives him a lifelong guarantee like Trek does, then the repairer must do the same. If they are not willing to do that, then they must replace. If the OP were my client, I would argue this with the insurer. It is not written as such in any policy wording, but the principal behind insurance is to put you in the same position after the incident than you were in before the incident. if the repairer give a guarantee that matches that of the manufacturer, there is no way that the OP will get a new bike. If the bike is repaired and the OP has an accident and he can PROVE that it is due to the repair job, then the repairer and MiWay would be liable.
Reg Lizard Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Why not? Have you seen the damage? What are your carbon repair qualifications? How long have you been building carbon frames? ps: Its not their opinion.... I think I am qualified enough...cracked 3 carbon rear wheels and 3 spez saddles in nearly as many years...you don't need qualifications these days...practical experience counts for more Jokes aside...did not say I was a specialist, was just offering my opinion If you dont like it, cool by me...but its stil my personal opinion...it might be wrong or not...but the fact remains I will not settle for a repaired carbon frame unless that is what I insured
PJP2013 Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Is this the same bikehub that I have previously read (many times) that if done correctly a carbon repaired area will actually be stronger than it was originally? Or is it just because the insurance company is paying that carbon repairs are now dodgy and the frame needs to be replaced? Double standards.
Pure Savage Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Is this the same bikehub that I have previously read (many times) that if done correctly a carbon repaired area will actually be stronger than it was originally? Or is it just because the insurance company is paying that carbon repairs are now dodgy and the frame needs to be replaced? Double standards.If someone was to repair a frame it would now be heavier, therefore not really in the same position. Can be stronger but not in same position as before crash.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Is this the same bikehub that I have previously read (many times) that if done correctly a carbon repaired area will actually be stronger than it was originally? Or is it just because the insurance company is paying that carbon repairs are now dodgy and the frame needs to be replaced? Double standards.no double standards. Insurance is there to insure the frame against accident or breakage and should normally, in the case of a catastrophic frame failure that can or cannot be repaired, pay for a replacement frame. The main concern is whether, when repaired, the bike would still satisfy the manufacturer's warranty and / or guarantee. In the case that it does, the repairer would have to be accredited with the manufacturer as an authorized repairer. If not, then the repairer would have to provide their own guarantee on workmanship (like Bogus does) which would then need to satisfy the insurer. The OP is within his rights to request a clarification of his policy wording, though. However - if the repairer does offer a guarantee on workmanship, then it's within the insurer's rights to approve the repair, if that is stipulated in the policy wording (and I'm pretty sure it would be) Same as a cell phone / computer etc. If it's repairable and the cost of repair doesn't exceed x% of the value of the item, it's repaired... Personally - I'd still fight it if I could. Ask for the details of the repairer (as is your right to know) and the details of the guarantee on workmanship they offer. It's also not a slap in the face of CWC - they are not carbon repair experts. What it DOES do, however, is reduce the value of the frame itself, as it effectively now has zero resale value (or closer to zero, at least) - a question to the insurer would be along the lines of whether they would continue to insure the bike for all circumstances, given that they have themselves requested the fix...
GLuvsMtb Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Someone dinged my car. The insurance company said to take it to a panel beater to have it reaired, Surely I am entitled to a new car as a repaired one is not putting me in the same position as I had been ? I feel ripped off !!Your car will be repaired by repair shop that is endorsed by both the insurer and the vehicle manufacturer using parts and techniques that is approved by both and conforms to all safety standards. You will also get a 3 year warrantee on any paint work done and any panels that are replaced.If you can repair a clear coat carbon bike so that it is not visible to the naked eye in a way that the bike manufacturer approves go ahead... and also speak to a good patents and trade mark attorney as it will be an industry first with huge cash upside.
JohanC Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I'm a broker and my personal insurance has been with Santam for many years. I've actually had two bicycle claims this year (1st: bike on the roof hitting the bridge at Killarney. 2nd: crash on the XCO track in Stellenbosch where carbon frame, rear rim and helmet cracked.) On both occasions there were little questions asked and claim settled within 2/3 days.I have numerous claims (from clients) through Cyclesure and Santam. (Usually my two preferred insurers: cycling related) without any hassles. I've always received professional assistance from the ladies at Cyclesure and claims settled promptly.
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