New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

Hi all, I have a 516,60NZD gift card with Farmers that I need to sell on.
Anybody who may be interested or able to assist in getting it sold on please, it would be appreciated if you could PM me to discuss.
How I ended up with it is a long story, but it is valid for another 18 months and can be used as a debit card so does not require a single transaction when spending. Should be good at any Farmers store countrywide.
Thanks.

[IceCreamMan]

2 hours ago, Rocket-Boy said:

Yeah man, the issue is she doesnt like change at all. 

Add to that her parents are 2 minutes from our house, her sister is 5 minutes and my whole family is 10 minutes away.

Im really unhappy in SA, living here is having a really negative effect on my mental wellbeing and negatively changing my personality. There are a number of other factors involved, but what I mostly want is safety.

I want to be able to go and enjoy the outdoors without having to worry about who was harassing me to watch my car when I parked, who is watching for mugging opportunities etc. I dont do a lot of that stuff anymore because its simply too dangerous without having a group of people.

Cant put a price on that feeling of freedom. Good luck convincing the wife., Took me 8 years 

[patches]

13 hours ago, Rocket-Boy said:

Yeah man, the issue is she doesnt like change at all. 

Add to that her parents are 2 minutes from our house, her sister is 5 minutes and my whole family is 10 minutes away.

Im really unhappy in SA, living here is having a really negative effect on my mental wellbeing and negatively changing my personality. There are a number of other factors involved, but what I mostly want is safety.

I want to be able to go and enjoy the outdoors without having to worry about who was harassing me to watch my car when I parked, who is watching for mugging opportunities etc. I dont do a lot of that stuff anymore because its simply too dangerous without having a group of people.

Yeah, the adjustment can be daunting. 

But the old adage is true... change is the only constant in life, and when one thinks about it, SA has been changing (at a pretty rapid rate), so even the choice of staying/"no change" subjects one to change. The main differences are that one is relatively powerless over those changes and lately/sadly most of those changes have been for the worse.

But I get it. Those family who are so close become one of the more constants/anchors to weather the storms. So does lifestyle, comfort, familiarity and experience. We all have varying levels of "itchy feet". Some can't stay in a place for more than 2yrs. Others don't even like going away on holidays.

Emigration isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, and there are definitely compromises involved. 

I was thinking about something a while ago (in connection with a friend who also had concerns about venturing into the unknown). I suggested they think of it like a secondment of sorts. Not uncommon when climbing corporate ladders, and a compromise between the parties that want to experience new things and those that are worried about the permanence of emigrating.

So the idea was to move over. Try it for 2 years/long enough to get permanent residency (so the ability to go back to NZ anytime in the future). That time should also allow one long enough to adjust to the new lifestyle (ride the wave of highs and lows) as well as get established career wise. Then if one wants to return to SA, they will generally be in a better position, whether that be financially (from a better salary market) or employability (from gaining overseas experience, not unlike a regular secondment),

Anyway, internet forum advice is free, and that's about what it's worth ???? But 2-3 years go quicker than one thinks. Ask anyone who has lived here for that long.

11 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

Cant put a price on that feeling of freedom. Good luck convincing the wife., Took me 8 years 

 

[davetapson]

As an ex-Zimbabwean, I have two observations:

1. Your friends will leave. (Your parents will leave too, one way or another.)
2. Every time you think "Well, at least it can't get worse"... it does.

And a few more delights:
For those that don't have a ticket to somewhere, assume it will get harder to emigrate to favourable places over time, and quicker than you'd choose.
Assume that your currency will retain less and less value against hard currencies. 
If you don't have an export business, assume you may find yourself with no hard currency what-so-ever.

Play that forward, figure out where you'd like to be, when.
 

Edited July 27, 2021 by davetapson

[davetapson]

As for wives, we emigrated too late... because my wife doesn't like change (and had a business, and had friends, and had a community, and her parents, and the dogs, and...)

Why too late?

• Takes decades to pay off a house (at least one, most likely more)
• Takes decades to build up retirement capital.

We'll likely be working til we die...

Would we do it again?

In a heart beat.

Given what she knows now, would my wife have emigrated earlier?

In a heart beat.

[IceCreamMan]

45 minutes ago, davetapson said:

As for wives, we emigrated too late... because my wife doesn't like change (and had a business, and had friends, and had a community, and her parents, and the dogs, and...)

Why too late?

• Takes decades to pay off a house (at least one, most likely more)
• Takes decades to build up retirement capital.

We'll likely be working til we die...

Would we do it again?

In a heart beat.

Given what she knows now, would my wife have emigrated earlier?

In a heart beat.

Similar story. 

My wife has admitted she would have left when i first started talking about it had she known, but i guess everything happens for a reason. 

The retirement issue is true. Unfortunately rand to pound is a huge step backwards. Would have been retired in ZA already living the dream on the coast. But alas needs must and here i work til i die. But i am cool with that. Its good to work i reckon. 

We makes our choices and we lives our lives. If inevitably you are going to emigrate rather sooner than later. 

 

[Slowbee]

@ Patches, we are actually going down to Christchurch.

It was very much a zero to go. November 2020 we decided we wanted to go. Started meeting with agents about visa requirements etc.  In December we put up our house for sale and business's for sale. Jan/Feb we got all paperwork on the go. But by then had figured out that we would do the visa application ourselves. The Mrs landed a boat load of job interviews during Feb/March (which is another story altogether!). In March 2021 we signed the job contract to start middle Sep 2021. The company helped us with the final paperwork bits and pieces for a critical purpose visa application. We had to wait the longest for the police clearance certificate (6 weeks) which was issued to us end of May 21. Three days later we had our critical purpose visa. June was a bit of a break from everything (selling, moving, renting etc). During July (this month), I spent almost every waking hour in front of the PC trying to get into MIQ. I had variable auto refresh timing systems to try find us a date. The number of times I fell asleep in front of the PC was silly. Getting a date on this MIQ system was the most stressful thing I have ever had to do. Our futures lay in getting a date. The system is challenging to say the least, being "fully" booked till the end of November and "bots" taking dates before they even came online.

Through facebook I found some help and eventually got a booking into MIQ for the 18 September. Then it was a case of making sure we could get flights to match the dates. Because once you have a date, you have 72 hrs to confirm a flight based on the MIQ website telling you which flights you will be allowed on. Once that is uploaded and approved, they issue you with your MIQ voucher which you need to get onto the place to start your journey to NZ.

Turns out our employer was only expecting us at the end of Feb 2022, even though we had signed for starting middle Sep 2021.

Our house was sold in Jan 2021. Two of the 3 business's have been sold, with hand over dates at the end of August. We are keeping the smaller one for the moment.

So yes, if all goes well, 11 months from start to finish.

[patham]

15 hours ago, davetapson said:

As for wives, we emigrated too late... because my wife doesn't like change (and had a business, and had friends, and had a community, and her parents, and the dogs, and...)

Why too late?

• Takes decades to pay off a house (at least one, most likely more)
• Takes decades to build up retirement capital.

We'll likely be working til we die...

Would we do it again?

In a heart beat.

Given what she knows now, would my wife have emigrated earlier?

In a heart beat.

Looking back - the ideal time to emigrate is when you are young,  with no commitments, and bullet-proof. Although for many people, that also means you don't have the skills to qualify for migrant programs (if heritage/ancestry pathways are not available). 

I am also from Zim, and my move to S.A. was a soft one (went to study there, and never really went back), and was painless seeing as my belongings fitted in one suitcase, and one up from the Hitchhiker's Arthur Dent, I also had a towel and a duvet. Easy-peasy.

Next move to Aus, when its house, spouse & dependents and 20+ years older was orders of magnitude more difficult. But no regrets on the move, or on the timing. Sure life would have been easier/better if we had moved 5, 10 or 15 years earlier, but its pointless beating yourself up about it. We're not fortune-tellers and we all made our decisions with the best intent at the time.

 

[Slowbee]

So I want to give another post as to the reasons for leaving and how we got to decide on NZ.

Some background.

6 years ago we put into action a plan to travel Africa for 12 months in 2021. We worked out we needed to save for 5 or 6 years to have enough money to travel and so put money away for the trip. Over the last few years we have put structures in place to run our business's remotely, created management positions etc. We spoke to the school about an ideal time to travel and back up support while we traveled.  We up skilled ourselves for overland travel and all that jazz.

But then covid hit in March 2020. At first we were hopefully it would pass and we could still travel. Come October 2020, it turns out we can still travel, but with PCR testing. However, it would mean at least 12 border crossings. This means 12 covid tests. At about $90 each for 3 of us, 12 times, that is alot of money. It would also mean changing our planned route. It would also mean only 72 hrs to get across a border. This would make us very vulnerable to bribes, which we had agreed we would never do while traveling. Overlay onto this our daughter is on the autism spectrum, putting her through 12 nasal swabs was never going to work. So the trip was postponed. But till when? Everyone we spoke too, said bargain on 2023 for travel without some form of PCR testing at borders. 2022 might be to early, but it is possible, rather make it safe and look at 2023.

Then add into this mix getting work burn out. Hitting that wall of compassion fatigue for dealing with staff, client and general business problems. Loosing the passion for the work you used to love. We were both tired of being business owners. The responsibility of running 3 was taking its toll on the family, but more important the general mental well being. With covid happening, eskom, zuma (at the time) etc all around us, the pressure was a bit to much. And we really wanted to pull the plug. At the time, if we did pull the plug and sold up, restraint of trade's would kick in and we would not be able to work in our local area which would mean a move or travel to work out the area. Both the Mrs and I just wanted to become employed again. Make it someone else's responsibility to run the company. We wanted to stop working till 2 in the morning, worrying on Sundays about staff arriving on Monday. Having water, having electrcity etc etc etc. Even though we knew we were possibly going to Africa for a year, the weight of ownership never leaves.

I have always wanted to travel around the Australasia area. Since about 2019 I have been on Mrs Slowbee's case about what we were going to do after the Africa trip. I tried hard to get her to consider NZ as an option. Yes all the regular concerns about RSA kept coming up. Changing political, economic climate mixed with looking at the future for our daughter. But RSA is a country in Africa with africa challenges. It is not an easy place, it is beautiful and her people are incredible, but it is not an easy place to live and work. However the Mrs was not sure about going because of family.

 

Deciding on when to leave.

In Oct 2020, during a round of Eskom loadshedding, while having dinner with the family, the topic of immigration came up. Her Dad he said he thought it would be a good idea to leave if we wanted to. At the same time, her friend had decided to also go back to Aus, because her husband could not get work in SA. All things came together at once and Mrs Slowbee  came home from work one day and just simply said it was time to go. Just like that. 30 seconds to make the decision to go after years of asking.

 

But why NZ?

Firstly, Mrs Slowbee could (can/did) get a job relatively easily. This meant the work visa application during the middle of covid would not be a problem. We still have a little bit of age on our side. I have a UK passport but did not fancy the UK. Europe was looking ugly with covid. The U.S was off the table. So we looked at NZ and Aus. When I asked if we were ever likely to go on holiday to NZ from SA, the answer was unlikely. It is a long way to travel for a two week stay. Staying for longer on holiday would have taken a lot more money given the rand exchange rate. With some research we found the schools would be well suited for a girl on autism spectrum. In looking at visa's we found the permanent residence option after 2 years of working in NZ.

 

Over a bottle of champers looking at all this, we decided to head into NZ if we could get visa's and work etc. We could use our time there to see NZ and experience the entire region (Fiji, Aus, Tasmania, Borneo, Java, Sumatra etc). After 2 years, we could come back and do our planned Africa Trip. But after 2 years we could also have residency if we did not see ourselves coming back to RSA.  And who knows, South America sounds interesting as well. But at least with an NZ residency we could come back to NZ easily after our Africa trip or stay in RSA. The Mrs folks might need to be looked after in SA. Alternatively we would look towards becoming NZ citizens. But who knows what the future would holds.

 

So for now, we are not immigrating. We are going to enjoy ourselves and live free and live light. No financial immigration just yet. In 2 years with residence visas in hand,  we want to come back and do our planned Africa Trip.  We will see where to from there.

 

Cannot wait. Live light, live free.

 

 

 

 

[patham]

41 minutes ago, Slowbee said:

@ Patches, we are actually going down to Christchurch.

It was very much a zero to go. November 2020 we decided we wanted to go. Started meeting with agents about visa requirements etc.  In December we put up our house for sale and business's for sale. Jan/Feb we got all paperwork on the go. But by then had figured out that we would do the visa application ourselves. The Mrs landed a boat load of job interviews during Feb/March (which is another story altogether!). In March 2021 we signed the job contract to start middle Sep 2021. The company helped us with the final paperwork bits and pieces for a critical purpose visa application. We had to wait the longest for the police clearance certificate (6 weeks) which was issued to us end of May 21. Three days later we had our critical purpose visa. June was a bit of a break from everything (selling, moving, renting etc). During July (this month), I spent almost every waking hour in front of the PC trying to get into MIQ. I had variable auto refresh timing systems to try find us a date. The number of times I fell asleep in front of the PC was silly. Getting a date on this MIQ system was the most stressful thing I have ever had to do. Our futures lay in getting a date. The system is challenging to say the least, being "fully" booked till the end of November and "bots" taking dates before they even came online.

 

I reckon this is just a Darwinian stress-test to weed out the weak - so good work so far!

But I have heard stories of people that have had to get into Aus or NZ recently needing to do unreal amounts of arrangements and planning up to practically the last second to get flights, COVID tests, quarantine accommodation and visa's to line up with not only the eventual destination but also the intermediate transfers/stops along the way.  Especially now that reasonably direct flights don't exist any more. For example, it now seems easier to route from Europe to the US, then to Aus rather than via Asia.

 

[Slowbee]

2 minutes ago, patham said:

I reckon this is just a Darwinian stress-test to weed out the weak - so good work so far!

But I have heard stories of people that have had to get into Aus or NZ recently needing to do unreal amounts of arrangements and planning up to practically the last second to get flights, COVID tests, quarantine accommodation and visa's to line up with not only the eventual destination but also the intermediate transfers/stops along the way.  Especially now that reasonably direct flights don't exist any more. For example, it now seems easier to route from Europe to the US, then to Aus rather than via Asia.

 

Organising the flights was crazy! NZ only allows authorised flights to land from specific areas at specific times with specific airlines.  Hence the number of international flights (excluding Aus) is significantly reduced. Also the MIQ system means there are very few people actually coming into the country at any one time.
Everything is dependent on the deck of cards staying up.

[davetapson]

More cheerful topic...

What your kids end up doing... Instead of being kept off the street, they end up on the street... and learning responsibility.

 

Scholar road patrol...

 

 

[davetapson]

15 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

Similar story. 

My wife has admitted she would have left when i first started talking about it had she known, but i guess everything happens for a reason. 

 

Yeah, things can only happen when they are ready to happen.

[Slowbee]

While you guys are here, what do you need to buy a sim card ?

Specifically a data sim card?

 

[Wayne Potgieter]

1 hour ago, Slowbee said:

While you guys are here, what do you need to buy a sim card ?

Specifically a data sim card?

 

Nothing. When you land, go to one of the many cellphone providers at the airport and simply buy one. There is no serious paperwork as such. Data is ridiculously cheap here compared to RSA.

 

I recommend Spark as I was on Vodafone but struggled with patchy signal. 

[patches]

4 hours ago, Slowbee said:

@ Patches, we are actually going down to Christchurch.

It was very much a zero to go. November 2020 we decided we wanted to go. Started meeting with agents about visa requirements etc.  In December we put up our house for sale and business's for sale. Jan/Feb we got all paperwork on the go. But by then had figured out that we would do the visa application ourselves. The Mrs landed a boat load of job interviews during Feb/March (which is another story altogether!). In March 2021 we signed the job contract to start middle Sep 2021. The company helped us with the final paperwork bits and pieces for a critical purpose visa application. We had to wait the longest for the police clearance certificate (6 weeks) which was issued to us end of May 21. Three days later we had our critical purpose visa. June was a bit of a break from everything (selling, moving, renting etc). During July (this month), I spent almost every waking hour in front of the PC trying to get into MIQ. I had variable auto refresh timing systems to try find us a date. The number of times I fell asleep in front of the PC was silly. Getting a date on this MIQ system was the most stressful thing I have ever had to do. Our futures lay in getting a date. The system is challenging to say the least, being "fully" booked till the end of November and "bots" taking dates before they even came online.

Through facebook I found some help and eventually got a booking into MIQ for the 18 September. Then it was a case of making sure we could get flights to match the dates. Because once you have a date, you have 72 hrs to confirm a flight based on the MIQ website telling you which flights you will be allowed on. Once that is uploaded and approved, they issue you with your MIQ voucher which you need to get onto the place to start your journey to NZ.

Turns out our employer was only expecting us at the end of Feb 2022, even though we had signed for starting middle Sep 2021.

Our house was sold in Jan 2021. Two of the 3 business's have been sold, with hand over dates at the end of August. We are keeping the smaller one for the moment.

So yes, if all goes well, 11 months from start to finish.

Exciting times! It's no secret that I'm a fan of Christchurch, and the city has come a long way since I moved there over 5 years ago.

Sounds like a whirlwind of a process, but kudos for pulling it off, especially in light of current events.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions about Chch, areas, schools, etc.