Louzy Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 morning all have you seen this protest march advertised on facebook? you can search for it using the topic title. its on the 5th December at 08:00. The march starts from the forest glade house parking lot and goes to the SANparks area managers office in Tokai. i really hope this isnt going to jeopardize all the hard work that has already taken place through talks. seems some people are getting tired of waiting.
(Deon) Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Anyone seen the size of the Gum coming out of there? We had a three hour meeting with Table Mountain National Park yesterday and I laugh at the notion that people want to march on the group ensuring your safety. In Meurant's own words when the truck made it's way passed us.. "Oooo ***, jinne!" x1 75m tree per double trailer truck and this sh*t is falling over the road. Not 22 pine trees per load, ONE. Know what you are asking for.. seriously. Quite simply, every access point into the reserve is blocked by felling and will continue until about March when a few options open up. Right now you cannot get further than the bottom entry to Fairie Garden. On that note. Before the guys who do march on Tokai management think it was their pressure that got the area opened early, for which there is still no guarantee.. TokaiMTB have been discussing early access since Sept and we are very far down the line with the concept. We choose not to announce this until we had various options taken from yesterday's meeting to present to Table Mountain National Park legal. From a risk point of view (I know there are some that will just dismiss this), if a tree or a truck did happen to squash you, SANParks and Table Mountain National Park have to prove in a court that enough measures to ensure your safety were implemented, and that all reasonable steps to keep you from climbing over the fence, hiking around the gates, or ignoring the signs that very clearly state that by continuing to ignore the warnings, you place yourself and the agreement in jeopardy. Basically, if the public cannot keep to the agreement.. well then. Maybe the place should just stay closed till December 2016.
wepat Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Seems a few impatient people may stuff it up for the rest of us, I agree with Deon 100% a lot has been done in the background. We all want to ride Tokai for many years to come so show some patience for a few more months so we can ride for many more years
Louzy Posted November 27, 2015 Author Posted November 27, 2015 Seems a few impatient people may stuff it up for the rest of us, I agree with Deon 100% a lot has been done in the background. We all want to ride Tokai for many years to come so show some patience for a few more months so we can ride for many more years this is exactly why i posted this here... i know there a few guys here that have put alot of effort into what will be the new tokai and im sure they dont want it all stuffed up because of an ill timed march.
Iwan Kemp Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 A mountain is unstable, people could die. Literally. March seems a bit rich - even for the rich. How many of them marched recently for anything worthwhile?
Duane_Bosch Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 this is exactly why i posted this here... i know there a few guys here that have put alot of effort into what will be the new tokai and im sure they dont want it all stuffed up because of an ill timed march.I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I think a little extra pressure never hurt anyone but at the same time I think we've all bought into the process adopted by TokaiMTB so let's stay the course. I also don't think a protest march will stuff it up. However, 5 people showing up for the march will make us all look like fools and let's face it. There's a VERY real possibility of that happening. 20 odd people showed up for the last TokaiMTB agm.
Bloukrans Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 As much as I miss Tokai, I defer to the authorities and their reasons - I'm no expert to challenge the rationale for their decisions. Safety first! To those working behind the scenes - thanks guys! Why do we think a march will change the situation? Is that now the norm we follow when we cannot get what we want? I will wait till December 2016 for a better and safer Tokai! .
(Deon) Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Hey, if people want to march. Let them... Thanks for the headsup. It is quite obvious that there is a lot of emotion in the call to action - very little facts though.
(Deon) Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Seems a few impatient people may stuff it up for the rest of us, I agree with Deon 100% a lot has been done in the background. We all want to ride Tokai for many years to come so show some patience for a few more months so we can ride for many more years ..and I agree with you 100%. Some of the guys have literally given up work (i.e. a salary) to propose the future vision and plans. I don't think the march will derail anything, we have a solid relationship with Table Mountain National Park and this was again confirmed yesterday - we need each other. I do however understand the pining from the public and the lost revenue in the industry.. This is the reason we persist.
Simon123 Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 I think both sides are at fault if honest. The communications are incredibly poorly managed, and other successful news from the likes of Jonkershoek post-fire also show that (and to be fair, I do imagine Tokai was burned badly in comparison to Jonkers?) it is possible to make things happen if the people from all sides are on the same page. It wont be overnight, but faster than each side approaching this from another side. I live literally 5min from Tokai. I cycled there 3 times a week and miss that as my schedule doesn't allow driving out to Stellies or Durbanville. So, yes, I want Tokai open as fast as possible, but I want to have an awesome and safe Tokai too, so rushing this is certainly not good for the long term if the short term f*cks that up. But I feel it could possibly happen faster. Not to take away from the teams working on this, but just hearing / reading the processes, etc, I think a proper plan to perhaps multi-task on getting certain trail layouts / bits started ahead of perhaps finishing it lower down may speed up the process. I also feel the "safety card" is being over played (firesuit donned for the hell I'm about to take) to make up for the shortfalls in poor negotiation. This is not rocket science, but sounds (and feels) like politicking talk / process. I'm frustrated like the dozens of other people, but I'd like to think I'm objective enough to look at it from both sides. I dont think marches / facebook groups or the like solve anything, but simply opening the discussion and having those "in the know" admit to gatekeeping some info "for later" already shows that things are not as smooth as it could be. Also, WHO is building / re-doing the trails? WHO is paying for this? Is it even allocated? OR is it volunteer work? WHO is the person signing off that things are "safe"? I think we have a number of trail builders in Cape Town? Hundred bucks says that opening up a process similar to a tender for them to pitch their solution may also assist in getting things right.... Again, I dont expect it to happen overnight, and certainly dont have time to debate to death on the internet, but getting **** done requires the actions of many working to a common goal. Every process has it's slow moments, but true progress means using those lulls productively. I'm sure we could create a loop or two in the interim, perhaps even access from Porter School side (there was only really scrub / fynbos on the Constantia side of Tokai anyway) but until OPTIONS are discussed, I feel the solution is nothing more than a plaster over a wound whilst the doctors try and figure out the illness. My 5c.
Flowta Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Hey, if people want to march. Let them... Thanks for the headsup. It is quite obvious that there is a lot of emotion in the call to action - very little facts though. There would be less emotion and frustration if information was filtered to the general public/Mountain users. Everything seems to be behind closed doors. e.g.How far are they in the logging operations (what percentage, etc.)Processes being followedBarriers to safetyetc.Maybe this is out there, but certainly not obvious as Simon123 has written (while i was writing this) communication! Communication! Communication! is the key
Tumbleweed Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 A mountain is unstable, people could die. Literally. March seems a bit rich - even for the rich. How many of them marched recently for anything worthwhile? Nope, but some of their kids did try their luck at Parliament the other day...
American Flyers Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 I agree with that SANParks don't communicate with us properly. It feels like nothing happened in the forests. Maybe they rather close and get paid for doing nothing... Lol! We all pay Activity cards and they get enough money to patrol the whole area and fine the riders who disobey the rules... Enough for us. March will be good thing to show that we are serious..
(Deon) Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 There would be less emotion and frustration if information was filtered to the general public/Mountain users. Everything seems to be behind closed doors. e.g.How far are they in the logging operations (what percentage, etc.)Processes being followedBarriers to safetyetc.Maybe this is out there, but certainly not obvious as Simon123 has written (while i was writing this) communication! Communication! Communication! is the key The park is still closed. Logging continues. Trees are falling.. Easy to blame us and Parks for not communicating the same stuff over and over, but at some point maybe you want to just consider that the closure has been set since the fire and was set until end 2016. Do you follow twitter? There are regular updates from both the public and TokaiMTB. People who support the reopening by taking their own pics showing the progress. Two sets of before's and after's taken at regular intervals are already out there and are retweeted to everyone who wants to know.. If you want, find the tweet, grab a calculator and work out the % you seek. If you come to an answer, tweet it and become a part of the process. Support. Takes a big man to change his ways. No-one is paid to do this work. The communication is out there and serves as a basis until something changes. When info that is worthy of posting, it is posted. There is no need for TokaiMTB to prove that we are still around, you know we are! There is not enough time in the day to post meaningless info.. It just so happens that time is against us so already two members of TokaiMTB have given up income, sold bicycles, can't afford to have broken bikes slapped together for any fun, why? So that we can have trails when the place opens - so you can have trails when the place opens. Fundraising is very difficult when there is no plan. We are in flux. The only solution is to drive the process and make it happen! Cape Pine have until 2025.. suddenly 2016 does not seem so bad.
Eddy Gordo Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Lets say for arguments sake that there is a section of the mountain that is cleared and is away from the logging area. What are the possibilities of getting trails developed in this area and possibly routing away from trucks etc?
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