2016 Cannondale Scalpel 2 vs 2016 Momsen Vipa Team

[Matchstix]

.

[DJuice]

I don't know how this is a bad angle?

Also remember that not all 2.25 casings ae the same. This is a a vittoria Barzo on crest rims.

Running RR on Arch ex, take to photo from above the tires, looking down into rear tri-angle.

[raptor-22]

That's not a lot of clearance

['Dale]

Scalpel is real racing pedigree if you want that

Hence, the name

[raptor-22]

refers more to the sharp handling and very lively feel. Not everyone's cup of tea and it doesn't like going slowly. It's also not fond >BMI18's

real race snake machine

[The Bike Brew]

.

whether you fit a 1.5 or a 2.25 on the wheel - this measurement will stay the same. The bike was designed around a 1.9 to 2.25 tyre design - as used by XC and Marathon racers - find me a top racer running 2.35 and you get a barrel of Bells! 

 

Schwalbe 29 x 2.25 Racing Ralph has been the aftermarket tyre of choice on these bikes for the past 3 years. 

[Iwan Kemp]

whether you fit a 1.5 or a 2.25 on the wheel - this measurement will stay the same. The bike was designed around a 1.9 to 2.25 tyre design - as used by XC and Marathon racers - find me a top racer running 2.35 and you get a barrel of Bells! 

 

Schwalbe 29 x 2.25 Racing Ralph has been the aftermarket tyre of choice on these bikes for the past 3 years. 

 

Agreed. A 2.35 tire on a 80/100mm travel would make no sense at all. I had 2.25's on my VIPA and never experienced any rub. Or rather, only when my tires where completely mud covered did some of it rub against the inner stays - had that on most of my bikes to be honest! Hungry Monkey can take 2.4's and the 2.25's on them sometimes have mud-rub against the stays.

 

In general - 2.25's mounted to AMC Wide Lightnings = no problem. Can't expect more than that.

 

Side note: photos can be deceiving. I know for reviews it it REALLY difficult to take a photo that shows a true reflection of the space available.

[Matchstix]

how will the clearance remain the same? With that argument You should be able to fit any tire on any bike.

there are very few 1.9 mtb tires available in SA that i know of. Majority being 2-2.25.

Momsen specs the vipa xt with a 1.95 tire to create the illusion of more tire clearance.

and once again dont mistake the vipa ac with the vipa xt, ac has no issues

 

[The Bike Brew]

how will the clearance remain the same? With that argument You should be able to fit any tire on any bike. there are very few 1.9 mtb tires available in SA that i know of. Majority being 2-2.25. Momsen specs the vipa xt with a 1.95 tire to create the illusion of more tire clearance. and once again dont mistake the vipa ac with the vipa xt, ac has no issues

 

ummm, the VIPA AC and VIPA XT use the EXACT SAME rear triangles - same chain stay, same seat stay , same everything in the rear. 

 

the clearance at the seat stay bridge remains the same no matter the tyre size ( 1.5 to 2.25 ) the fact that the 2016 VIPA Range can have 2 x water bottles in the front triangle  shows clearly its intent - nothing but the Epic can claim that feature ( at least not without putting bottles in weird places ) 

[DJuice]

how will the clearance remain the same? With that argument You should be able to fit any tire on any bike.

there are very few 1.9 mtb tires available in SA that i know of. Majority being 2-2.25.

Momsen specs the vipa xt with a 1.95 tire to create the illusion of more tire clearance.

and once again dont mistake the vipa ac with the vipa xt, ac has no issues

Do you have a secret memo were Momsen decide to spec the back wheel with 1.95 tire to create the illusion of clearence? Or is the 1.95 back tire perhaps to match their sales market of xc riders?

1.95 tire at the back tells me, it is weight saving on a racing bike.

[Iwan Kemp]

Clearance from tire to stay bridge stays the same as long as the knobs don't grow. So in one model range (Racing Ralph 2.1 vs Racing Ralph 2.25 vs Racing Ralph 2.35) it will stay the same.

[Matchstix]

Sorry, misunderstood the measurement comment.

I also didn"t realise all the new vipa frames are the same.

However the fact that on a 2.25 tire clearance remains very little still stays the same.

I have seen no issues on older vipa's 

and like you said the tire op choice a RR. bearing in  mind epic weather can be from Mud to dry. If and If the mud chows away on that send the frame seatstay area  the frame cracks. I would sure like to see if momsen will warrantee the part.

 

 

Do you have a secret memo were Momsen decide to spec the back wheel with 1.95 tire to create the illusion of clearence? Or is the 1.95 back tire perhaps to match their sales market of xc riders?
1.95 tire at the back tells me, it is weight saving on a racing bike.

Unfortunatelyi cant claim to have such a memo. yet if I see a bike with a 2.25 tire clearance that small  I will not buy it. So I apply my logic to what I would have done to make the bike more appealing for someone who might have the same issues as me.

I haven't seen any other bikes in the same category with different size tires on the front and back or with so little tire clearance.

If your racing pedigree makes you buy smaller tires to save weight (that's why all our top xc racers use 1.95 tires I am sure) go for this bike. in my opinion I would'nt touch it.

 

[Matchstix]

Iwan I Usually don"t disagree with you, however if I understand you correctly you are stating that the balloon effect of the tire on each model stays the same irrespective of the width of the tread? the wider the tread the bigger balloon effect the casing will have and so the tire clearance between the bridge and tire will become smaller.

[PeterF]

Iwan I Usually don"t disagree with you, however if I understand you correctly you are stating that the balloon effect of the tire on each model stays the same irrespective of the width of the tread? the wider the tread the bigger balloon effect the casing will have and so the tire clearance between the bridge and tire will become smaller.

Matchstix is correct, a higher volume tyre will have a larger circumference.

[raptor-22]

I rode an Anthem 29 for 3 years and then switched over to a Rocky Mountain Element. The improvement in geometry was a revelation - mainly shorter chainstays and not a too low BB. Low BB is needed for xc yes but Giant made it so low that it effected my confidence and riding style negatively - a bike should not do that. The too long chainstays is just too long - less traction on the rear which made steep downhills scary and it also negatively effected turning.

 

As for the DW-link type suspension, it does keep that rear wheel smooth and planted under breaking, something which is more needed for trail riding. The rear suspension on the Element (shock under down-tube) is less smooth and planted but it seems to pedal and climb better, less pedal bob.

 

 

Less traction on the rear????!!! really dude. Please try to understand the physics at play. The longer stays give you more traction on climbs. 

It sounds to me like you had the Anthem set up really badly. Likely way to soft and probably a size too big.

Those longer stays require you to sit further back over the rear wheel so generally a lay back seat post would work. You then balance that with a longer stem so you''d tend to size down or rather follow the old way of sizing your bike. The 27.5 bikes follow the more modern trend.

When I tried out a 29er Anthem I found the small to be the size for me. On the 27.5 I found the medium to require a more modern set up.

 

Had a RM Element 970RSL for a week on try out and it was superb. Nice comfy bike with stable handling in size medium. I did not like how it bobbed in comparison to the BMC Fourstroke, Santa Cruz Blur Giant Maestro. 

Climbing it just did not have the traction in all the gears that the VPP bikes had.

I concede on the decents it felt less racy but against the 27.5 Anthem it just didn't cut it. Too slow to turn and wanted to push into turns. Not a bad trait if all you ride is multi day stage events as a mid to rear pack rider.

 

The best way to ride the Anthem is fast, brake late and turn hard off the brakes. If you turn on the brakes yes it will push through corners courtesy of the longer stays. But when ridden properly and fast it is a very capable and rewarding bike to ride.

 

Obviously the Rocky works for you. Chapeau!

It is a great bike and one of my favourites.

 

When I had to chose a new bike it was on the shortlist along with the Orbea Occam, Scalpel, BMC and both Giants. 

[Iwan Kemp]

Iwan I Usually don"t disagree with you, however if I understand you correctly you are stating that the balloon effect of the tire on each model stays the same irrespective of the width of the tread? the wider the tread the bigger balloon effect the casing will have and so the tire clearance between the bridge and tire will become smaller.

Matchstix is correct, a higher volume tyre will have a larger circumference.

 

Typed and posted in haste - was time to leave the office! On my way home I was thinking that I'd try to measure this some time this week. Would be interesting to see.