Flat Pedals vs Flat SPD Pedals vs SPD Pedals

[AlanD]

Always use shin guards (even the soccer one will do) while learning to hop a bunny.

I have already smacked my shins trying to do the spronk ????. Gonna get some shin pads this weekend.

[nonky]

IMG-20160121-WA0021.jpeg

 

Left overs from last weekend... I wasn't even moving when it happened lol

 

Yussis!  Those are BIG mosquitos...

[AlanD]

Skate shoes - check (spent way more than i wanted to but far cheaper than 5.10s)

Shin pads - check

 

All geared for tomorrows [weather permitting :-(] first flat pedal ride.

 

Quick test in the garden and the shoes grip far better than them old takkies, buyers remorse gone;). Starting to get the manuel better but the mext step for bunny hop (lifting the back wheel) is a bit more tricky.

[AlanD]

First ride feedback on flat pedals:

 

Shoes and Pedals:

 

The shoes proved to be really good. Had great grip and felt comfy. Pedals were also good as they were wide and accomodated most of my foot.

 

Conditions:

 

Sjo, so muddy at Thaba trails that it was really tough annd slippery but good fun non the less.

 

The ride:

 

First thing off the bad that i noticed with flat pedals is that is was easy to hop on go. No trying to cleat in the other foot after a few pedals.

 

There were two distinct things that were different on my ride:

1) That disconnected feel of flats. It was me and then there was the bike and not that feeling of being one with the bike that takes a while to get used and by the end of my ride i was not used to it.

2) Pedalling efficency went ride out the window as there was not the nice pull back and up on the pedal to get good power. I felt i was stopping down on the pedals and can feel my calves have been worked hard and are actually sore. This was evident in climbing hills were for the first time since i converted to 1x10 that i had to use the largest cog. The last hill at thaba is a long gradual climb and eventually i had to get off and push...eish. Now my question here is, can this be sorted with some technique as really struggled with this?

 

Everytime i changed gears,my foot shot forward a bit on the pedal but i quickly got it back in position which naturally lands with the ball of my foot behind the pedal axle but cleated its central to the axis. Why isnit advocated with cleats that the ball of the foot my in line with the axle when on flats it feels more natuaral to be behind the axle?

 

To my surprise, the long downhill sections, which are not technical were lekker ans i stayed with the bike so no issues there.

 

Hitting a jump is hard as the bike leaves me so that will take lots of practice to5nget right.

 

All in all i was a great experience and if i had cleats on i would have fallen a few times due to the conditions but with flats i managed fine.

 

I did feel rather despondent with my ride due to the issues above but its only the first ride and of course will take many rides for things to come together nicely alwhich is understandable after riding cleats for almost all of my cycling life and i will definitely ride the flats until i get comfortable as it was really lekker an felt rather free.

 

I used my shin pads but didnt fet any hits on them so thats positive :-)

[Thermophage]

First ride feedback on flat pedals:

 

Shoes and Pedals:

 

The shoes proved to be really good. Had great grip and felt comfy. Pedals were also good as they were wide and accomodated most of my foot.

 

Conditions:

 

Sjo, so muddy at Thaba trails that it was really tough annd slippery but good fun non the less.

 

The ride:

 

First thing off the bad that i noticed with flat pedals is that is was easy to hop on go. No trying to cleat in the other foot after a few pedals.

 

There were two distinct things that were different on my ride:

1) That disconnected feel of flats. It was me and then there was the bike and not that feeling of being one with the bike that takes a while to get used and by the end of my ride i was not used to it.

2) Pedalling efficency went ride out the window as there was not the nice pull back and up on the pedal to get good power. I felt i was stopping down on the pedals and can feel my calves have been worked hard and are actually sore. This was evident in climbing hills were for the first time since i converted to 1x10 that i had to use the largest cog. The last hill at thaba is a long gradual climb and eventually i had to get off and push...eish. Now my question here is, can this be sorted with some technique as really struggled with this?

 

Everytime i changed gears,my foot shot forward a bit on the pedal but i quickly got it back in position which naturally lands with the ball of my foot behind the pedal axle but cleated its central to the axis. Why isnit advocated with cleats that the ball of the foot my in line with the axle when on flats it feels more natuaral to be behind the axle?

 

To my surprise, the long downhill sections, which are not technical were lekker ans i stayed with the bike so no issues there.

 

Hitting a jump is hard as the bike leaves me so that will take lots of practice to5nget right.

 

All in all i was a great experience and if i had cleats on i would have fallen a few times due to the conditions but with flats i managed fine.

 

I did feel rather despondent with my ride due to the issues above but its only the first ride and of course will take many rides for things to come together nicely alwhich is understandable after riding cleats for almost all of my cycling life and i will definitely ride the flats until i get comfortable as it was really lekker an felt rather free.

 

I used my shin pads but didnt fet any hits on them so thats positive :-)

I thin your pins on those old flats are letting you down man.

You should NOT be feeling your foot moving around changing gears :S

Rest of the stuff will come.

Honestly I don't notice any of the things you're describing here.

Even pedalling efficiency I can notice a distinct pull back on flats, obviously no pull up, but hey, a lot of this is in ones head anyway.

All I know is, is that its awesome passing the XC guys on their XC bikes and cleats on uphills riding a trail bike with flats 

[deanbean]

It will take a few weeks to get used to the flats. Riding last we we rode up some steep sections, and I found that I had to drag my foot through the bottom of the stroke to power up the hill sitting. Standing I was losing grip due to loose gravel. That is with a 36t 1x10.

I've gone back to cleats now as I'm getting close to races again.

[AlanD]

I thin your pins on those old flats are letting you down man.

You should NOT be feeling your foot moving around changing gears :S

Rest of the stuff will come.

Honestly I don't notice any of the things you're describing here.

Even pedalling efficiency I can notice a distinct pull back on flats, obviously no pull up, but hey, a lot of this is in ones head anyway.

All I know is, is that its awesome passing the XC guys on their XC bikes and cleats on uphills riding a trail bike with flats

Yeah, the pedals are old the pins are a bit worn so will invest in some good pedals when cash allows.

 

The muddy conditions did not help at all as there was no grip on my tires with all the mud.

 

One other thing though. I dopped my seat a little bit as i felt a little too high but woth cleats its perfect. Is this just a mind F#$%?

 

Haha, the xc guy must loathe that :-)

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yeah, the pedals are old the pins are a bit worn so will invest in some good pedals when cash allows.

 

The muddy conditions did not help at all as there was no grip on my tires with all the mud.

 

One other thing though. I dopped my seat a little bit as i felt a little too high but woth cleats its perfect. Is this just a mind F#$%?

 

Haha, the xc guy must loathe that :-)

it may seem strange, but try to get your foot forward on the pedals. It's a weird sensation, but your calves will thank you for it, and you will have more stability on the way down. If you think about it, if your foot is behind the pedal axle, every time you pedal or stand out the seat, your legs are doing miniature calf raises, many times over. 

 

On the way down, centralise your foot so that the axle is almost on the arch - between the ball and the arch. Trust me, it'll be better.

 

 

Height wise - you may find that the combination of pedals and shoes has a lower profile than your cleats & cleat shoes. Quite simple, really, which means that you had to lower your seat a bit to adjust for the lower platform.

 

As for the pull up, do some googling on that - you don't need the pull. All you need is the push. No loss of efficiency unless you're doing mega km and you're time trialling and so on, or you need the up-stroke to generate additional power (road bike on climb out the saddle and sprinting, or track bike where they eke out every little bit of power they can generate)

 

Mash the pedals. Don't try to pedal in circles. It doesn't work... 

 

Being disconnected - drop the heels... 

 

Taking all this into account, I'm learning it all again now. Having to concentrate so hard just to get the basics right again - that's what a 10 week layoff after a crash does to the confidence. Felt like a right tit on the way down G spot this morning.. 

[AlanD]

it may seem strange, but try to get your foot forward on the pedals. It's a weird sensation, but your calves will thank you for it, and you will have more stability on the way down. If you think about it, if your foot is behind the pedal axle, every time you pedal or stand out the seat, your legs are doing miniature calf raises, many times over.

 

On the way down, centralise your foot so that the axle is almost on the arch - between the ball and the arch. Trust me, it'll be better.

 

 

Height wise - you may find that the combination of pedals and shoes has a lower profile than your cleats & cleat shoes. Quite simple, really, which means that you had to lower your seat a bit to adjust for the lower platform.

 

As for the pull up, do some googling on that - you don't need the pull. All you need is the push. No loss of efficiency unless you're doing mega km and you're time trialling and so on, or you need the up-stroke to generate additional power (road bike on climb out the saddle and sprinting, or track bike where they eke out every little bit of power they can generate)

 

Mash the pedals. Don't try to pedal in circles. It doesn't work...

 

Being disconnected - drop the heels...

 

Taking all this into account, I'm learning it all again now. Having to concentrate so hard just to get the basics right again - that's what a 10 week layoff after a crash does to the confidence. Felt like a right tit on the way down G spot this morning..

Sjo, 10 weeks. Can imagine how hard it must be to get back into it.

 

Centralize foot, mash pedals and heels down...got it, thanks.

 

It all takes time and practice amd patience...and good weathet..hahaha

[RockCoach]

Dude, just ride nearly every day for 3 or 4 weeks. That's what it took for me to unlearn 20 years of being cleated and start controlling a bike properly.

[AlanD]

Dude, just ride nearly every day for 3 or 4 weeks. That's what it took for me to unlearn 20 years of being cleated and start controlling a bike properly.

Riding everyday is difficult for me unless its just around the garden practicing some tricks and riding off the lapa steps...lol...do you find more benefit from riding flats?

[raptor-22]

it may seem strange, but try to get your foot forward on the pedals. It's a weird sensation, but your calves will thank you for it, and you will have more stability on the way down. If you think about it, if your foot is behind the pedal axle, every time you pedal or stand out the seat, your legs are doing miniature calf raises, many times over. 

 

On the way down, centralise your foot so that the axle is almost on the arch - between the ball and the arch. Trust me, it'll be better.

 

 

Height wise - you may find that the combination of pedals and shoes has a lower profile than your cleats & cleat shoes. Quite simple, really, which means that you had to lower your seat a bit to adjust for the lower platform.

 

As for the pull up, do some googling on that - you don't need the pull. All you need is the push. No loss of efficiency unless you're doing mega km and you're time trialling and so on, or you need the up-stroke to generate additional power (road bike on climb out the saddle and sprinting, or track bike where they eke out every little bit of power they can generate)

 

Mash the pedals. Don't try to pedal in circles. It doesn't work... 

 

Being disconnected - drop the heels... 

 

Taking all this into account, I'm learning it all again now. Having to concentrate so hard just to get the basics right again - that's what a 10 week layoff after a crash does to the confidence. Felt like a right tit on the way down G spot this morning.. 

 

 

I'm confused....

 

On the one hand you're saying pedaling in circles doesn't, yet on the other hand the common consensus is that oval chain-rings aid pedaling in circles and this reduces fatigue and improves traction on the MTB on steep loose climbs.

 

Secondly there seems to be a lot of concessions to pedaling with flats. You have to keep re positioning you foot on the pedal, have to only push down etc etc etc.

 

But MTBIng brings a host of different terrain on a single ride. It just seems there needs to be a lot of workarounds to make flat pedals comfortable for use on a MTB.

 

I used flats in my BMX days and they were great for that but the pedaling style still involved more use of the pedal circle to get the necessary power

[Thermophage]

I'm confused....

 

On the one hand you're saying pedaling in circles doesn't, yet on the other hand the common consensus is that oval chain-rings aid pedaling in circles and this reduces fatigue and improves traction on the MTB on steep loose climbs.

 

Secondly there seems to be a lot of concessions to pedaling with flats. You have to keep re positioning you foot on the pedal, have to only push down etc etc etc.

 

But MTBIng brings a host of different terrain on a single ride. It just seems there needs to be a lot of workarounds to make flat pedals comfortable for use on a MTB.

 

I used flats in my BMX days and they were great for that but the pedaling style still involved more use of the pedal circle to get the necessary power

Oval rings with flats REALLY help that little bit before your foot gets to the 12 'o clock position to allow you to be able to do a little bit of a horizontal push...that's what I've definitely noticed.

In so doing it makes it "feel" as though you are pedaling in circles.

 

With regards to re-positioning your foot. I don't see this as a concession, but rather as a bonus. When clipped in your foot is always in one spot on the pedal. However this one spot is not necessarily always the best place to have your foot, but rather the best overall position for the whole ride.

i.e. over very rooty and technical stuff I MUCH prefer the pedal to be situated further back towards the arch of my foot, so with the flats I can achieve this if I'd like then re-position to a more comfortable pedaling position later.

 

Power delivery comes primarily from the down push on the pedal stroke anyway, so there's really zero advantage to being clipped in for pure power. However some may feel there is an efficiency advantage in that the opposing leg can assist in this stroke.

However as many peeps have pointed out here the efficiency thing has been (albeit not entirely scientifically in that multiple tests with different people in different riding conditions, etc) mostly proven to be more in ones head than an actual fact.

 

I certainly don't feel more efficient clipped in than on flats, nor do I feel more connected to the bike. I rode clipped in with the CB Mallets for about 2 years and was never as fully comfortable as with the flats.

 

So none of these things are workarounds in my view, but rather bonuses above what being clipped in can offer.

 

So I guess, try em all and see which you prefer is the main thing

[Bomberman]

I'm confused....

 

On the one hand you're saying pedaling in circles doesn't, yet on the other hand the common consensus is that oval chain-rings aid pedaling in circles and this reduces fatigue and improves traction on the MTB on steep loose climbs.

 

Secondly there seems to be a lot of concessions to pedaling with flats. You have to keep re positioning you foot on the pedal, have to only push down etc etc etc.

 

But MTBIng brings a host of different terrain on a single ride. It just seems there needs to be a lot of workarounds to make flat pedals comfortable for use on a MTB.

 

I used flats in my BMX days and they were great for that but the pedaling style still involved more use of the pedal circle to get the necessary power

I think it comes to how you ride, I pedal kinda in circular motion and have no issues with power of foot position. 

 

I place the pedal in the middle of my shoe, when I need some power I just drop my heel and stomp down. When I ride flat areas I keep my foot level and pedal in a circular motion.

[Bomberman]

Oval rings with flats REALLY help that little bit before your foot gets to the 12 'o clock position to allow you to be able to do a little bit of a horizontal push...that's what I've definitely noticed.

In so doing it makes it "feel" as though you are pedaling in circles.

 

Im confused on this, I need to get a chain ring for my new 1x10 conversion. Now most of the pro guys tel me that oval is the best thing since sliced bread but, when I mention that Im riding flats they say I should get a round one. 

[raptor-22]

Oval rings with flats REALLY help that little bit before your foot gets to the 12 'o clock position to allow you to be able to do a little bit of a horizontal push...that's what I've definitely noticed.

In so doing it makes it "feel" as though you are pedaling in circles.

 

With regards to re-positioning your foot. I don't see this as a concession, but rather as a bonus. When clipped in your foot is always in one spot on the pedal. However this one spot is not necessarily always the best place to have your foot, but rather the best overall position for the whole ride.

i.e. over very rooty and technical stuff I MUCH prefer the pedal to be situated further back towards the arch of my foot, so with the flats I can achieve this if I'd like then re-position to a more comfortable pedaling position later.

 

Power delivery comes primarily from the down push on the pedal stroke anyway, so there's really zero advantage to being clipped in for pure power. However some may feel there is an efficiency advantage in that the opposing leg can assist in this stroke.

However as many peeps have pointed out here the efficiency thing has been (albeit not entirely scientifically in that multiple tests with different people in different riding conditions, etc) mostly proven to be more in ones head than an actual fact.

 

I certainly don't feel more efficient clipped in than on flats, nor do I feel more connected to the bike. I rode clipped in with the CB Mallets for about 2 years and was never as fully comfortable as with the flats.

 

So none of these things are workarounds in my view, but rather bonuses above what being clipped in can offer.

 

So I guess, try em all and see which you prefer is the main thing

 

 

Thanks, I see how your preference has developed. But this bit still doesn't make sense to me:

"Oval rings with flats REALLY help that little bit before your foot gets to the 12 'o clock position to allow you to be able to do a little bit of a horizontal push...that's what I've definitely noticed.

In so doing it makes it "feel" as though you are pedaling in circles."

 

How is it possible for the assistance before 12 o'clock to not be pedaling in circles. It sounds like its not so much a feeling but an event. The muscle activation doesn't happen instantaneously since the command has a long way to travel and other muscles need to be activated in order for that push to occur. There has to be a pull from the hamstring.

Also without the lift the is achievable when the foot is secured to the pedal, 

 

So I'm thinking there's no real anatomical benefit here. The objective of the pedaling stroke is just to make up for the inefficient use of a smaller part of the available arc in which power can be produced

It stands to reason that a more gradual hand over of load between muscles is more efficient than regular stomping with greater force?