Constantia Greenbelt Trail news and updates

[marko35s]

Sorry, where and when did SANParks publish something to say something to the effect that they were "closing Lower Tokai with effect from 9AM on Monday 29th August 2016"?

 

MTO know when they are going to start felling trees. If the locals can get a court interdict to stop them, then I don't believe SANPark are not trying very hard to get reasonable notice from MTO of proposed closures and then passing that information on to effected parties.

 

"Everyone has the right to administrative action that is lawful, reasonable and procedurally fair." - South African Constitution, Bill of Rights.

 

Fire or no fire. I am not convinced SANPark have been trying very hard to meet their obligations. Nor are a bunch of other people who live near to or frequent Lower Tokai.

SANParks found out that MTO were going to fell the trees roughly one day prior to the closure. The trees belong to MTO and they have a legally binding contract that allows them to harvest them before 2024.

If you want to get outraged at something keep it for the protesters that racially abused parks staff last night, thats worth getting upset about far more than what amounts to a farmer harvesting his crop.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

On the day of or night before, due to the short notice from MTO. I've seen it happen before, prior to the fire. The first the previous section ranger knew about it was when the trucks rolled past the office...

 

They SHOULD tell parks, but sometimes they just don't until the very last moment.

 

But agreed that there should have been more notice. Parks are also dealing with a lot more than closing the area tI prep for the felling.

[i24]

On the day of or night before, due to the short notice from MTO. I've seen it happen before, prior to the fire. The first the previous section ranger knew about it was when the trucks rolled past the office...

 

They SHOULD tell parks, but sometimes they just don't until the very last moment.

 

Sounds like SANPark should join the protesters getting the injunction against MTO.

 

If you rent a house and your landlord wants to come repair the roof he must give you fair notice. I don't know what legal muscle SANParks have, but I am sure they can put quite a lot of pressure on MTO to get better co-operation.

[(Deon)]

Sounds like SANPark should join the protesters getting the injunction against MTO.

 

If you rent a house and your landlord wants to come repair the roof he must give you fair notice. I don't know what legal muscle SANParks have, but I am sure they can put quite a lot of pressure on MTO to get better co-operation.

Hi i24. Part of the reason for little to no notice is because of the protests around the trees. I received a panicked call asking me to notify all our members that the machine was arriving on the morning of the felling. This is identical to the notice that I received in 2013 when the compartment lining the Mamba and Boomslang trail was due to be felled. Myles mentions it above where the machines rolled passed the ranger's window.

 

It is historically an impossible task for MTO to continue their operations in the peninsula without people chaining themselves to trees, or worse, placing their staff at risk due with nails and iron rods being drilled and hammered into the trees in the weeks prior to felling - because of the notice.  

 

We are talking about innocent people being placed at risk. A nail has the potential to kill either the operator on the day, or someone later in the milling department.

 

Yes, it frustrates SANParks to no end that they do not get cutting schedules or enough notice of intended felling... it is them after all who get the abuse or bad rap as the managers of the park. The have an obligation to both the public's safety as well as the contractor. A rock and a hard place springs to mind.

[DJR]

Jussus Deon, are you saying that the loggers don't give notice of where and when they are going to cut pines because there are people mad enough out there that they go and hammer nails into the trees? Holy ****! I shudder at the mayhem a 6 inch nail could do if hit with a chainsaw going at speed. Not even thinking of it hitting a high speed circular saw blade in the mill. Imagine a broken blade coming for the operater at 20 000 revs per minute. That is activism turned attempted murder! By all means chain yourself to a tree or sit down in front of a dozer, but hammering nails into tree trunks is just cowardly sabotage!

[(Deon)]

As for the abuse and hate being spewed at anyone looking like they are associated to Parks.. based on that alone I will not join any protest even if there was a chance of winning. 

 

And to hide one's agenda behind the life of a child? The real problem lies 3km's away from any fynbos.. the cost of a legal battle for shade has the potential to save a whole community from gangsters and TIK, and as a result, we will be safer than being able to see between trees!

 

This protest actually shows something else in our society. Ignorance! I will bet you that 99% of those FaecesBook posts on the Parkscape page were made from behind high walls with electric fencing and an armed response waiting to respond to yet another call. Because if you don';t have it, you will not be eligible for insurance! FACT! But they choose to blame bushes and hinge their safety on line of sight. Tsotsi's don't need bushes.

 

Sorry. Rant over. As you were. 

[(Deon)]

Jussus Deon, are you saying that the loggers don't give notice of where and when they are going to cut pines because there are people mad enough out there that they go and hammer nails into the trees? Holy ****! I shudder at the mayhem a 6 inch nail could do if hit with a chainsaw going at speed. Not even thinking of it hitting a high speed circular saw blade in the mill. Imagine a broken blade coming for the operater at 20 000 revs per minute. That is activism turned attempted murder! By all means chain yourself to a tree or sit down in front of a dozer, but hammering nails into tree trunks is just cowardly sabotage!

There are a lot of angry people suggesting exactly that on the Parkscape Facebook page. 

 

And for some reason they also think they have not been consulted. How short are our memories?? This was debated to death in 2005 before the compromise for replanting after a cycle of seeding is complete. 

[i24]

Hi i24. Part of the reason for little to no notice is because of the protests around the trees. I received a panicked call asking me to notify all our members that the machine was arriving on the morning of the felling. This is identical to the notice that I received in 2013 when the compartment lining the Mamba and Boomslang trail was due to be felled. Myles mentions it above where the machines rolled passed the ranger's window.

 

It is historically an impossible task for MTO to continue their operations in the peninsula without people chaining themselves to trees, or worse, placing their staff at risk due with nails and iron rods being drilled and hammered into the trees in the weeks prior to felling - because of the notice.  

 

I don't have strong feelings about the trees. But in our democracy, we have a right to administration that is procedurally fair. We need to defend this right as one day we may be faced with a new personality in SANParks who takes arbitrary decisions which interfere with cycling.

 

It seems MTO have a policy of secrecy around their operations. I am not sure how complicit SANParks are with that policy, but this is unlikely to show either organisation in a favourable light when the ladies get their day in court next week.

 

As regards to protests, they have to be managed. It starts with meaningful public participation. Eventually decisions must be made, and if necessary, challenged and upheld in court. Finally security and police have to ensure that those decisions can be implemented. It may not be convenient, but it is in everybody's best interests in the long run.

 

When one party takes actions that are not in good faith, then you should not be surprised when there is a backlash.

 

But getting back to the trees, I cycled through middle Tokai today, that entire compartment has been felled. Two days ago there were trees and now they gone, it is quite impressive! The area was open again too. Lots of cyclists and horse riders too.

[DJR]

...........But getting back to the trees, I cycled through middle Tokai today, that entire compartment has been felled. Two days ago there were trees and now they gone, it is quite impressive! The area was open again too. Lots of cyclists and horse riders too.

On the flat bits it is quite quick to cut and load.

[(Deon)]

I don't have strong feelings about the trees. But in our democracy, we have a right to administration that is procedurally fair. We need to defend this right as one day we may be faced with a new personality in SANParks who takes arbitrary decisions which interfere with cycling.

 

It seems MTO have a policy of secrecy around their operations. I am not sure how complicit SANParks are with that policy, but this is unlikely to show either organisation in a favourable light when the ladies get their day in court next week.

 

As regards to protests, they have to be managed. It starts with meaningful public participation. Eventually decisions must be made, and if necessary, challenged and upheld in court. Finally security and police have to ensure that those decisions can be implemented. It may not be convenient, but it is in everybody's best interests in the long run.

 

When one party takes actions that are not in good faith, then you should not be surprised when there is a backlash.

 

But getting back to the trees, I cycled through middle Tokai today, that entire compartment has been felled. Two days ago there were trees and now they gone, it is quite impressive! The area was open again too. Lots of cyclists and horse riders too.

The only surprise I can see is the claim that due process was not followed. It does suit the agenda.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The only surprise I can see is the claim that due process was not followed. It does suit the agenda.

Due process was followed aaaages ago

[i24]

Due process was followed aaaages ago

 

That's what SANRAL said when they started building toll gates on the N1 and N2 in the Western Cape. But there are two (or more) sides to every story.

 

Let the court hear the ladies' side of the story next week...

[Headshot]

I suspect "the ladies"  will get kicked out of court smartly, but you never know. The question is why should "we" the citizens have a right to fair administrative action in a pine plantation where the trees belong to a Company? We can expect fairness from a government body  - maybe even SANP, but not a company that owns trees and is not beholden to SANP re the harvesting schedule et al. Quite how they are going to get an order against TMNP stopping the harvesting where TMNP have no control over it is going to be very interesting...

[DJR]

...........Let the court hear the ladies' side of the story next week...

Emotions don't stand up very well in court. My prediction is that they will lose, even if they play it the presidential way, by delaying, postponing, appealing and dragging it out until the second coming, but lose they will lose.

 

The pines were planted for timber, like tomatoes are planted to be eaten. The fact that the pines give nice shade and people like them, still does not change the fact that they are there to be cut down by their rightful owner. All legally, and within his rights. Even if they are in someone elses' backyard. Making wild unfounded emotional accusations will not change that fact, even if you pay a smooth lawyer to make a nice speech about it in front of a judge.

 

If I'm later proven wrong, I'll admit it and apologize, but I really don't think I'll have to. At the very least, I won't have to apologize for wasting good money, time, sympathy and effort that could have been used on a far more deserving project.  

[Headshot]

You have no idea how much smooth and not so smooth nonsense is sprouted in front of Judges on a daily basis...

[Pure Savage]

Some real first world problems here... *rolls eyes*