Specialized bad after sale service.

[(Deon)]

Think of it like this: 50% of D.E.O.N. spells it! 

http://ex-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/418795.jpg

Edited April 19, 2016 by (Deon)

[Butterbean]

That does not remove the manufacturers responsibility.

 

No warranty for corrosion?Really, even if that affects the structural integrity....?

Really.

 

 

Well i guess there are better products to choose then

Again, no one is arguing that the manufacturer should have done something. If the OP had acted as soon as he spotted a problem, he would most likely have received a lovely new frame and been super happy. Bur he didn't do anything about something he saw. It got worse, but now time is up. It's over. Done. So no, the manufacturer doesn't have a responsibility any more. They covered themselves from the start and our OP was too smart for his own good, thinking he could be a proper judge of a small blemish on his 23k frame.

[Kranswurm]

its a latent defect in the frame manufacturing process or does specialised blinkers prevent people from seeing that.

 

Part of the preparation of the aluminium dropout insert is that it is roughed up and cleaned to remove grease and AL₂0_3.

 

 If the components were nto properly prepared and the glue cured in a too humid atmosphere then corrosion will set in. 

The defect is not the OP's fault. He/she didn't build the bike.

 

pictures will of course help but I've seen this on other brands of bikes built in the east (where surprise surprise its humid....). Its not a specialised problem

 

I agree with you.Certainly appears to be a latent defect which should be covered by the supplier/agent.The period is normally five or six years

[(Deon)]

Again, no one is arguing that the manufacturer should have done something. If the OP had acted as soon as he spotted a problem, he would most likely have received a lovely new frame and been super happy. Bur he didn't do anything about something he saw. It got worse, but now time is up. It's over. Done. So no, the manufacturer doesn't have a responsibility any more. They covered themselves from the start and our OP was too smart for his own good, thinking he could be a proper judge of a small blemish on his 23k frame.

Ja, you've stated that earlier too. The issue was dismissed as corrosion, no further investigation entered into – meaning had he taken it in sooner he could expect the same outcome, most likely.

[(Deon)]

I agree with you.Certainly appears to be a latent defect which should be covered by the supplier/agent.The period is normally five or six years

Here we go.

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY ON FRAMES AND FRAMESETS

Also subject to the following limitations, terms and conditions, Specialized warrants to the original owner of this bicycle that this Specialized bicycle’s frame or frameset when new is free of defective materials and workmanship. The lifetime limited warranty is conditioned upon the bicycle being operated under normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This limited warranty does not apply to paint/finish or components attached to the bicycle frame/frameset such as front forks (unless Specialized branded non-suspension forks forming part of the frameset), wheels, drivetrain, brakes, seatpost, handlebar and stem or any suspension related parts or components. Paint/finish, components attached to the bicycle frame/frameset such as front forks (to the extent not covered by this limited warranty), wheels, drivetrain, brakes, seatpost, handlebar and stem or any suspension related parts or components are covered under the limited two (2) year warranty (above). Certain suspension related parts or components may also be covered under the limited five (5) year warranty (below). This warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not assembled by an authorised Specialized dealer in accordance with Specialized’s instructions and does not transfer to subsequent owners of this bicycle."

[Baron]

Giant or Merida no problems with frame replacements if the problem is manufacturing related for MTB I think 5 Years.

 

Also OP should acted when he notice the problem.

 

But Specialized could say, your mistake and our factory mistake, you paid X for the frame, we will replace with new and you pay in the difference.

[(Deon)]

It could just be how the OP has worded this but I see a problem between the assessment and the warranty that has been quoted. 

 

"...the assessment was that the area where the carbon and the aluminum joint is corroding. They declined replacing the frame as corrosion was not part of the the warranty and the paint warranty was only valued for 2 years."

 

The assessment indicates a frame manufacturing issue but the limited warranty he has been refereed to covers the paint i.e. finish.

 

The problem of frame failure does not lie in the paint.

[Pure Savage]

Still no picture. :/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Patchelicious]

Good point on the pictures.

 

If the OP wants the "hubland" support as you put it, then he should put these things up.

 

I for one am still of the opinion that if the OP took the frame in within the correct period the outcome could have been a lot different. The calls saying that the manufacturer has a responsibility on this "latent defect" is partially true, they WERE, that's why they have a warranty period.

 

Who is to say that this "bump" didn't just recently form??

 

Manufacturers cannot be held responsible for consumer behavior.

 

Edit: I have a 1991 Colnago, it has some rust on the fork where some chrome has come off. This apparently occurred in 1992 when the frame was still under warranty, should I now call them up and demand a new frame?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Patchelicious

[needleshy]

It could just be how the OP has worded this but I see a problem between the assessment and the warranty that has been quoted.

 

"...the assessment was that the area where the carbon and the aluminum joint is corroding. They declined replacing the frame as corrosion was not part of the the warranty and the paint warranty was only valued for 2 years."

 

The assessment indicates a frame manufacturing issue but the limited warranty he has been refereed to covers the paint i.e. finish.

 

The problem of frame failure does not lie in the paint.

Agreed. It sounds like the problem is not the paint but the frame corrosion under the paint. It does sound like a manufacture defect as the paint layers and primer should act as a protective barrier against corrosion. Unless there has been damage through the paint causing an area for contamination to enter it may have been contaminated before the spraying process, wouldn't that classify as a workmanship issue & therefore be covered by the warranty?

[V12man]

The warrantee s

 

It could just be how the OP has worded this but I see a problem between the assessment and the warranty that has been quoted. 

 

"...the assessment was that the area where the carbon and the aluminum joint is corroding. They declined replacing the frame as corrosion was not part of the the warranty and the paint warranty was only valued for 2 years."

 

The assessment indicates a frame manufacturing issue but the limited warranty he has been refereed to covers the paint i.e. finish.

 

The problem of frame failure does not lie in the paint.

The warrantee states that any defect in workmanship or materials - surely corrosion indicates an incompatibility between materials (thus a defect in material selection by the supplier), or a defect in workmanship that allows the oxidisation process to happen - this claim should not be a paint claim - and thus has a longer warrantee period than 2 years....

[(Deon)]

Good point on the pictures.

 

If the OP wants the "hubland" support as you put it, then he should put these things up.

 

I for one am still of the opinion that if the OP took the frame in within the correct period the outcome could have been a lot different. The calls saying that the manufacturer has a responsibility on this "latent defect" is partially true, they WERE, that's why they have a warranty period.

 

Who is to say that this "bump" didn't just recently form??

 

Manufacturers cannot be held responsible for consumer behavior.

 

Edit: I have a 1991 Colnago, it has some rust on the fork where some chrome has come off. This apparently occurred in 1992 when the frame was still under warranty, should I now call them up and demand a new frame?

No, the limited lifetime warranty excludes components such as forks.

 

See, ultimately what the discussion should start to focus less on is the paint warranty and more on the frame warranty. The assessment went as far as pinpointing the join, Spez should respond as why the lifetime frame warranty does not apply to the join which is essentially a structural component, an not confuse matters by quoting a much shorter warranty period (paint) that is 1. not the concern, nor  2. the assessed issue.

[(Deon)]

The warrantee s

 

The warrantee states that any defect in workmanship or materials - surely corrosion indicates an incompatibility between materials (thus a defect in material selection by the supplier), or a defect in workmanship that allows the oxidisation process to happen - this claim should not be a paint claim - and thus has a longer warrantee period than 2 years....

Actually, aircraft manufactures already know of some of the limitations of bonding carbon to aluminium. Carbon blade props bonded to aluminium heads have come loose at the join.. so there is history if it is ever needed.

[JXV]

A carbon bike frame often has metal parts embedded or bonded to the carbon/resin composite. Typical examples are the drop outs, some joints, bb shells, threaded inserts for water bottles etc.

In order to bond strongly to the composite material, the metal part must be prepared, usually to a roughened clean metal surface. Part of the production process for most carbon parts includes baking in an oven. This would cause pressure to build up in any enclosed volumes (e.g. the inside of tubular parts with closed ends) so breather holes may be included in the design. the inside of metal tubing and the inside of metal/carbon joints cannot easily be painted and usually it is not painted.

 

Now you buy the bike, ride it and occasionally wash it. Moisture gets in to the frame via seat post, breather holes and various other places.

 

Recipe for corrosion is water, metal and oxygen. If two dissimilar metals are in contact and both surfaces wetted then this can make a weak electric "battery" and an even faster form of corrosion called galvanic corrosion can occur.

 

Carbon is conductive and can form one half of a galvanic couple, so while the carbon/resin composite is unlikely to corrode, the metal parts to which it is attached can corrode galvanically if the joint gets wet in the presence of air.

 

The previous post about water treatment chemicals causing corrosion is BS. The small amount of chlorine in drinking water is the only potentially corrosive compound and is not present in sufficient quantity to cause noticeable damage but other components can, particularly salts. If your bike gets covered in sea spray you can wash salts into the frame. If you wash your bike with dishwashing liquid, this stuff is thickened by adding salts and so on. If you live inland, the water tends to be more mineralised (salty). All these factors can increase corrosion of a susceptible part.

 

The external paint finish should protect the entire outside of the bike, including carbon/metal joints but the inside may not be protected so it is necessary to be careful when washing the bike. Pressure cleaners and spraying with hosepipes is not only bad for bearings but it also can help to introduce water into the frame. So, every now and then, remove the seatpost, turn bike upside down and drain out the water that tends to accumulate at the BB. also make sure breather holes in the front and rear triangles are open so water inside can drain and dry out. Don't store the bike wet, let it get dry in the sun when possible before storing it.

 

All that said, when corrosion is noticed ( discolouration, bubbling under paint etc) take action immediately. Waiting two years is negligent and even if a warranty still applied it makes the repair more expensive.

 

I'm not surprised the manufacturer is refusing to replace this frame, due to time elapsed between first observing the problem and then taking action. I also agree that the manufacturer's representative may have misinterpreted the root cause. This corrosion at the joint should not be occurring in a properly manufactured and maintained frame.

 

The best route to go now is to approach a third party specialist for repair (and we happen to know of a good one here on the Hub). Certainly the R23000 outlay on the bike is not lost or worthless.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Edited April 19, 2016 by JXV

[Kranswurm]

Good point on the pictures.

 

If the OP wants the "hubland" support as you put it, then he should put these things up.

 

I for one am still of the opinion that if the OP took the frame in within the correct period the outcome could have been a lot different. The calls saying that the manufacturer has a responsibility on this "latent defect" is partially true, they WERE, that's why they have a warranty period.

 

Who is to say that this "bump" didn't just recently form??

 

Manufacturers cannot be held responsible for consumer behavior.

 

Edit: I have a 1991 Colnago, it has some rust on the fork where some chrome has come off. This apparently occurred in 1992 when the frame was still under warranty, should I now call them up and demand a new frame?

No because that would be unreasonable.

[SwissVan]

Just a misconception correction.

 

Limited warranties are not there for the consumer. They are there for the manufacturer. The key word is limited - limited in time and limited in what they cover. If they didn't exist there would be potential for claims for repairs and replacement for years and years after a sale.

 

Product warranties are a balancing act - a period long enough to instill confidence in the product but also to protect the manufacturer from claims ad infinitum.

 

There's a few other misconceptions floating around regarding corrosion.

 

Aluminium has good corrosion resistance, but like all resistance it is futile....

 

Corrosion has a way of finding its way into a metal, all it takes is a microscopic size particle or scratch to start the process. Joints are particular venerable as small particles can get in and create an electrolytic path which will result in some form of corrosion unless it is treated quickly. Often its to small to see and by the time you see it its to late.  

 

The best manufacturing and post manufacturing maintenance practises (such as regular washing) in the world cannot guarantee that aluminium wont corrode. Bicycles are used in an environment which exposes them to water, dirt, sweat etc...ideal for starting corrosion. 

This is why no or very few (?) frame manufacturers will support a warranty claim for corrosion after a the warranty period has expired.

 

Manufacturing defect.... Very difficult to prove without specialized (pun not intended) expertise, i.e. an experienced metallurgist with hi tech equipment. 

If there is a manufacturing problem then we would most likely see a few more of the same cases.

 

Most likely if it had been reported in time Specialized may have at their discretion provided some sort of warranty relief, within the borders of Headshot said above.