The Mystery Rider has been found, NOW how to keep going to Friday?

[Rapunzel]

A gentle pitchfork prod is all good. Maybe Rapunzel will reply here soon... She seems up to date with all things TBMC

I'm just watching (with my bowl of popcorn)

Yip Mr BMC has been located and a "suitable repentance" is being arranged. Gotta say though, 2 years back there would probably have been 50 riders with the audacity to ride a closed trail so things are definitely better.

Asking land owners to lay charges of trespassing is an option but it is a nuisance for them and we really don't want to inconvenience them unless absolutely necessary (although the thought of locking some offenders up in the back of a saps van for a few hours is very appealing )

[KarlvN]

Okay peeps,

 

To clarify my intentions with this thread:

 

1. I was angered by the blatant disregard to the trail closure by the club member, who should know better.

 

2. I do not and will never condone physical violence as a means to an end. My comments about paint ball guns and pepper spray were made tongue in cheek. I apologize for putting the club and MTB'ing in general in a bad light. I should have known better.

 

3. I posted the pic to have the bloke identified in order for the club to deal with him on their own terms. There was already a request on the FB page, I just felt to broaden the search area.

 

4. I stand by my convictions that a club member should adhere to the rules of the club as well as respect the land we are so graciously allowed to ride on. For a club member to so blatantly disregard an instruction to which he has agreed to abide by being a member, is shocking to say the least. If any club member deems that they do not want to abide by the rules, then by all means return your number board to Tygerberg MTB Club, and refrain from accessing the trails. In that way, you can do what you want. Just go do it somewhere else.

 

5. I will stand by any decision taken by the club or land owners for that matter.

 

6. I do NOT speak on behalf of the club, and I am not privy to anything more or less than what is already in the public domain. I acted of my own volition, in order to ensure that due process is followed to prevent this from occurring again.

 

7. I understand the frustration from a land owner perspective, as my dad owns a farm, and I have first hand knowledge of the intricacies of uninvited people on your land. For those of you who have no farms, you need to understand how much this pisses a farmer off. Few things come close, other than drunk laborers and stock theft.

[Thor Buttox]

I'm just watching (with my bowl of popcorn)

Yip Mr BMC has been located and a "suitable repentance" is being arranged. Gotta say though, 2 years back there would probably have been 50 riders with the audacity to ride a closed trail so things are definitely better.

Asking land owners to lay charges of trespassing is an option but it is a nuisance for them and we really don't want to inconvenience them unless absolutely necessary (although the thought of locking some offenders up in the back of a saps van for a few hours is very appealing )

You may wait longer for a SAPS van than for a 100hours of Community Trail building under Patrick and his gnomes... Enjoy the popcorn!

[Warthog]

I've followed this thread with interest. Here where I am blessed to ride, we basically ride where we want to, except in the plantations, mainly because there are not that many of us, and the riders here are definitely more careful in general.

 

But re your problem with rogue riders: I'm serious that trespassing is still a criminal offence. No, SAPS are probably (read definitely) not going to send a van to arrest a trespasser, but if he is, in a case like this, identified, then prosecute the bugger.

 

It might be some trouble, but you're only going to have one or 2 rogue riders who end up with criminal records (albeit it for only trespassing) and the message will spread...

 

Very troublesome things, criminal records...

[GLuvsMtb]

Agreed. 

 

BTW - land owners already get all the proceeds from day pass jobbie magafters. R 200 per day / R 300 per day cost for an employee to do the necessary? Sure that'll be overcome. 

R 50 x 20 honest okes vs R50 x 50 visitors that come to ride. Even at a 50% split in the gate the land owner still makes more. He is also removed of the hassle to record the cash takings and he also does not take the cash risk / hassle to bank the takings. The riders have certainty in that the procedure at each TBMTBC trail is consistent, and with a uniform board / permit display it would make using multiple trails easier. Historically the club stated that only members are allowed on certain farms. By following set protocol to enrol day riders as members (for the day) this hurdle can also be overcome. All that is needed is positive ID, a contact number and a signed indemnity from each day visitor.

[Bloukrans]

Okay peeps,

 

To clarify my intentions with this thread:

 

1. I was angered by the blatant disregard to the trail closure by the club member, who should know better.

 

2. I do not and will never condone physical violence as a means to an end. My comments about paint ball guns and pepper spray were made tongue in cheek. I apologize for putting the club and MTB'ing in general in a bad light. I should have known better.

 

3. I posted the pic to have the bloke identified in order for the club to deal with him on their own terms. There was already a request on the FB page, I just felt to broaden the search area.

 

4. I stand by my convictions that a club member should adhere to the rules of the club as well as respect the land we are so graciously allowed to ride on. For a club member to so blatantly disregard an instruction to which he has agreed to abide by being a member, is shocking to say the least. If any club member deems that they do not want to abide by the rules, then by all means return your number board to Tygerberg MTB Club, and refrain from accessing the trails. In that way, you can do what you want. Just go do it somewhere else.

 

5. I will stand by any decision taken by the club or land owners for that matter.

 

6. I do NOT speak on behalf of the club, and I am not privy to anything more or less than what is already in the public domain. I acted of my own volition, in order to ensure that due process is followed to prevent this from occurring again.

 

7. I understand the frustration from a land owner perspective, as my dad owns a farm, and I have first hand knowledge of the intricacies of uninvited people on your land. For those of you who have no farms, you need to understand how much this pisses a farmer off. Few things come close, other than drunk laborers and stock theft.

Yes, our family has no farm as it was stolen (in my EFF voice  )

 

No fault with your reasoning OP!

 

As a member, I'm in agreement

[BDF]

R 50 x 20 honest okes vs R50 x 50 visitors that come to ride. Even at a 50% split in the gate the land owner still makes more. He is also removed of the hassle to record the cash takings and he also does not take the cash risk / hassle to bank the takings. The riders have certainty in that the procedure at each TBMTBC trail is consistent, and with a uniform board / permit display it would make using multiple trails easier. Historically the club stated that only members are allowed on certain farms. By following set protocol to enrol day riders as members (for the day) this hurdle can also be overcome. All that is needed is positive ID, a contact number and a signed indemnity from each day visitor.

Can all this not be taken care of using Snapscan? When product code is scanned, the product includes indemnity. Snapscan can only operate with positive ID and a credit card, so easy enough to trace if needed. Only thing is then No Snapscan = No ride but this can easily be overcome by downloading the app and getting it activated.

[GLuvsMtb]

Can all this not be taken care of using Snapscan? When product code is scanned, the product includes indemnity. Snapscan can only operate with positive ID and a credit card, so easy enough to trace if needed. Only thing is then No Snapscan = No ride but this can easily be overcome by downloading the app and getting it activated.

You also need someone to monitor it / have motion activated cameras.

[Brickleberry]

As a strict roadie I have a question. Why would a land owner care whether or not a rider is rogue or not? If he is happy to let people ride on his land then surely it makes no difference to him who rides there? Or is part of the day price and club membership going to the land owner and therefore he would have an interest in policing who is riding his land?

[Phatman]

The fact of the matter is that regardless of the club's guidelines on how to handle rogue riders etc, several members see it as justification for aggressive behaviour towards perceived wrongdoers. Some see themselves as "enforcers", rather than following the club's request that rule-breakers be reported so that proper channels can be followed. This is eventually going to tarnish the good name of the club.

A few in this thread, made comments with an undertone that the club asking its members get all worked up and violent out there.

 

This is discouraging to see, as this is definitely not the case. As per weekly emails to all members :

 

"You are empowered to police your trails - if you see something wrong - report it ! "

 

The club even go as far as to provide, in this same mailer, a link to their website, for easy reporting of any contraventions.

 

The perception being created that the members are being asked to get their hands dirty is not correct. Yes, in some trail reports by our master trail-builder, he has mentioned that we as paying members need to help protect our privileges and be on the lookout for transgressors of club rules....this is a very simple request and one that makes perfect sense. We are not asked to get into any verbal altercations, on the contrary, but it makes perfect sense to ask the members to assist.

 

Yes, above, and on facebook groups / pages, guys will "talk big" and say how they will give the rogue rider a "pakslae" and force a Co2 bomb up, or down, some body parts, but that is VERY obvious nothing more than banter.....to take these comments, and now use that against the club and say we are being encouraged to take the law into our own hands, is disappointing.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

As a strict roadie I have a question. Why would a land owner care whether or not a rider is rogue or not? If he is happy to let people ride on his land then surely it makes no difference to him who rides there? Or is part of the day price and club membership going to the land owner and therefore he would have an interest in policing who is riding his land?

because rogue riders contribute nothing to the overall experience, and are trespassing. The landowners let us on subject to us being an organized body, therefore in order to gain access there needs to be a sort of club structure.

 

In addition - rogue riders do not contribute to the upkeep of trails, nor respect the terms and conditions imposed upon the club members - terms and conditions which the landowner has more often than not requested to be in place. 

 

In the end - it's not your land. Respect the landowners & trail managers wishes. End van prent.

[MTBeer]

As a strict roadie I have a question. Why would a land owner care whether or not a rider is rogue or not? If he is happy to let people ride on his land then surely it makes no difference to him who rides there? Or is part of the day price and club membership going to the land owner and therefore he would have an interest in policing who is riding his land?

To paraphrase Myles' reply -

 

because rogue riders are by definition farking dwisses and who knows what other cr@p a farking dwis is going to get up to.

[Headshot]

because rogue riders contribute nothing to the overall experience, and are trespassing. The landowners let us on subject to us being an organized body, therefore in order to gain access there needs to be a sort of club structure.

 

In addition - rogue riders do not contribute to the upkeep of trails, nor respect the terms and conditions imposed upon the club members - terms and conditions which the landowner has more often than not requested to be in place. 

 

In the end - it's not your land. Respect the landowners & trail managers wishes. End van prent.

Except in this case he was not a rogue, but a club member on a piece of trail that was closed off temporarily. 

 

Other than that I agree with you. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Except in this case he was not a rogue, but a club member on a piece of trail that was closed off temporarily. 

Yep.

[Brickleberry]

because rogue riders contribute nothing to the overall experience, and are trespassing. The landowners let us on subject to us being an organized body, therefore in order to gain access there needs to be a sort of club structure.

 

In addition - rogue riders do not contribute to the upkeep of trails, nor respect the terms and conditions imposed upon the club members - terms and conditions which the landowner has more often than not requested to be in place.

 

In the end - it's not your land. Respect the landowners & trail managers wishes. End van prent.

 

I understand they contribute nothing toward the trails, my question is based on the land owners stopping access to the land , if a rogue rider and a paid up rider , look the same , ride the same, and pretty much are the same except for a payment to a club, how does that affect the land owner ?

[Tubehunter]

There is no real "angle". I am genuinely concerned about public liability here. This is a far greater threat to the whole trail network (sounds absurd, but hear me out). 1 claim against the club and a land owner by someone who, rightly or wrongly were assaulted, on the offending or policing side, and we can kiss the club, its reserves and land access good bye.

I agree that the club should enforce the access policy. It makes sense. I do not agree to have untrained and overzealous members approaching rogue riders as it is just a matter of time before we have real crap on our hands. The policing thing started off by the club asking members to police their riding group (easier as you are generally friendly with these okes) to ensure that they are all paid up. For good measure members riding with non-paying riders were identified and publicly told to get their buddies to comply. It is just a bad idea to have 3000 members with their own interpretation of policing out there. I understand the purpose of the thread. The "grootmenere" with comments like "kom ons donner hulle" and "lets set choke wires at head height" is what set the alarm bells off in my head.

 

All valid points if the threats were legit!

 

However did any of the mob justice suggestions made here by some other long standing members who have shown a propensity for humour laden banter really come across as genuine to you? Especially when Hairy already diffused some of that with his reply suggesting the gravity of chicken wire across a path in any scenario! (To that end, any of us with a coherent thought will agree that someone who actually ever considers REALLY putting wire of any type across a path should be treated like a criminal!)