A vertical shock is better...

[Serious Panda]

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/254967/6039102/1267972574970/ritchey_mountain_bike-number-1_02.jpg

 

This frame design is old.

[the nerd]

This frame design is old.

 

Tell us why... 

[nonky]

This frame design is old.

 

Yip, about 12 months' old, IIRC.

[Serious Panda]

Tell us why... 

 

A modern design would have the shock mounted vertically with the seat tube.

[Serious Panda]

And not have that rear pivot.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

A modern design would have the shock mounted vertically with the seat tube.

And not have that rear pivot.

Bahahahahahaha!

 

And again, cos it seems as if someone needs to say this at least once a month. Suspension design is far more than just shock positioning.

 

Pivot placement. Shock tune. Linkages. Leverage ratios. Etc etc.

 

There's a reason that the Horst Link is one of the most popular suspension designs now that the spaz patent has run out.

 

Yes, some iterations needed a lockout to prevent Bob when pedalling. But the latest ones are mostly fine, just needing a firmer shock tune (thats the reason for the brain, btw. An almost automatic "climb" setting that has a blow-off valve that allows it to open on hits above a certain threshold)

 

Scott was almost the last ones to realise that pivot placement was crucial, and that was a single pivot, not a Horst Link like the spaz.

 

Seriously. Read up on it before you comment...

[Monark]

A modern design would have the shock mounted vertically with the seat tube.

 

Nothing "modern" about that design at all.... it has been around for years.... try again...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Nothing "modern" about that design at all.... it has been around for years.... try again...

Reasoning for the change in Scott shock positioning:

 

Better to drive suspension forces in to bb area where frame is naturally stiffer

Weigh distribution - lower COG

"Allowed them to tune progression curve more reliably"

 

1 of those is BS. I'll give a hint. The YT TUES is one of the most "progressive" suspension designs on the market.

 

Another one is also semi BS, just marketed a little better. The spaz frame design is an x wing and is very stiff at the shock mount position. Previous Scott design drove the shock forces almost directly into the top tube horizontally though, without any additional bracing and was therefore exposed to longitudinal compression forces (not good on a carbon tube)

[Serious Panda]

Bahahahahahaha!

 

And again, cos it seems as if someone needs to say this at least once a month. Suspension design is far more than just shock positioning.

 

Pivot placement. Shock tune. Linkages. Leverage ratios. Etc etc.

 

There's a reason that the Horst Link is one of the most popular suspension designs now that the spaz patent has run out.

 

Yes, some iterations needed a lockout to prevent Bob when pedalling. But the latest ones are mostly fine, just needing a firmer shock tune (thats the reason for the brain, btw. An almost automatic "climb" setting that has a blow-off valve that allows it to open on hits above a certain threshold)

 

Scott was almost the last ones to realise that pivot placement was crucial, and that was a single pivot, not a Horst Link like the spaz.

 

Seriously. Read up on it before you comment...

 

Baaah baah naah naah baaah.

 

Nothing "modern" about that design at all.... it has been around for years.... try again...

 

Yes true its been around. I am comparing this to the modern design of the award winning Silverback Sesta. Vertical shock to remove the need for a re-enforced top tube and a solid rear triangle.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Baaah baah naah naah baaah.

 

 

Yes true its been around. I am comparing this to the modern design of the award winning Silverback Sesta. Vertical shock to remove the need for a re-enforced top tube and a solid rear triangle.

Very stiff design, sure. And I knew you were referring to it earlier as well.

 

But not "the best". And certainly not rendering any other design inferior or "old"

[Serious Panda]

Very stiff design, sure. And I knew you were referring to it earlier as well.

 

But not "the best". And certainly not rendering any other design inferior or "old"

 

To me it seems like a superior design scientifically/on paper.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

To me it seems like a superior design scientifically/on paper.

One word. Woo

[Serious Panda]

One word. Woo

 

I do not see the woo. Less pivots is better, a solid rear triangle is better, and the shock at the seatpost is better.

[Serious Panda]

Yet specialized are at the front of the pack in enduro , XC and downhill ......men and women

 

but no more pivots and seat tube mounted shocks are not the best 

 

Yes they do have the best riders/most money.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I do not see the woo. Less pivots is better, a solid rear triangle is better, and the shock at the seatpost is better.

None of which are empirically true. A vertical shock position is not demonstrably better than a horizontal one. Less pivots are not demonstrably better than more pivots. A solid rear triangle is not demonstrably better than one with pivot points in it.

 

There are trade-offs in each situation, and the more you investigate the more you realise that each suspension design is an exercise in compromises and the attempt to achieve an end result. 

 

The Silverback had a very clear end result - pedalling performance and stiffness in the rear whilst still being active on the rough stuff. They could have utilized any number of combinations to achieve this end result:

 

A main pivot that locates higher on the seat tube / down tube than the top end of their "ideal" chainring size - this is the most common characteristic in modern suspension designs

Larger pivot bearings - also being used more frequently now

A firmer suspension tune

Solid rear triangle

Progressive shock curve

Horst link with a progressive shock tune

Single Pivot with a progressive shock tune

DW link (also has a solid rear triangle)

 

And and and. 

 

The Silverback is a good design. But it is by no means "the best" 

 

If you believe that, then you've drunk the kool-aid. Properly. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yet specialized are at the front of the pack in enduro , XC and downhill ......men and women

 

but no more pivots and seat tube mounted shocks are not the best 

Yeti (Richie Rude) Nukeproof (Sam Hill) Yoann Barelli (Giant) would disagree...