Need help

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

If you have a firm foundation from previous BMX / Trials / Street / MTB skills, either will do you fine.

 

If you don't - Flats. 

 

If you're a roadie without any prior skills development training and want to progress - flats. 

 

If you're just doing dirt roadie stuff - cleats are fine. 

[eddy]

Just not flat pedals.

Clipless is the way to go.

I am very fond of Look Pedals

I use Look Pedals on my MTB and they are very good.

 

I remained clipped in even after I went OTB on Saturday. It instills a great deal of confidence when you are lying on your back with both feet still firmly attached.

[V12man]

I use Look Pedals on my MTB and they are very good.

 

I remained clipped in even after I went OTB on Saturday. It instills a great deal of confidence when you are lying on your back with both feet still firmly attached.

Confidence the pain will eventually go away...

[Vetseun]

I use Look Pedals on my MTB and they are very good.

I remained clipped in even after I went OTB on Saturday. It instills a great deal of confidence when you are lying on your back with both feet still firmly attached.

Whilst I fully appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I fully accept that flats and downhill makes sense to me.

However, there is no way that I can accept that you can generate the same power with flats compared to clipless.

Now people get told that bike shops talk bs when advising people to go clipless. Sorry I dont agree.

IMO: Dont be a softcock. Decide what pedals you want. If it is clipless, buy them, clip in and flippen ride your bike. Ja, you will fall over once or twice. You are going to fall MUCH harder than that in the future if you ride a MTB.

Just my opinion okes so dont wee in your panties.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Whilst I fully appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I fully accept that flats and downhill makes sense to me.

However, there is no way that I can accept that you can generate the same power with flats compared to clipless.

Now people get told that bike shops talk bs when advising people to go clipless. Sorry I dont agree.

IMO: Dont be a softcock. Decide what pedals you want. If it is clipless, buy them, clip in and flippen ride your bike. Ja, you will fall over once or twice. You are going to fall MUCH harder than that in the future if you ride a MTB.

Just my opinion okes so dont wee in your panties.

If you're riding professional level bmx or are a sprinter in the road bunch or are riding xco then yes you will benefit from cleats. For us ordinary folk you can put out just as much power on flats as with cleats. The pull stroke is largely a myth. Do a little bit of research if you want to. If you're set in your ways and no amount of research or logic will sway your opinion, well then you're just being silly.

 

Ask Sam Hill if he has a problem putting down power with flats.

 

For clarity. Power means nothing without control. If you recommend that a rank beginner with zero technical skills get cleats just because they'll fall anyway so you may as well get cleats, or tell them that they can put out more power with cleats (not true unless you're one of those mentioned above) then it's bad advice IMO

[eddy]

Whilst I fully appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I fully accept that flats and downhill makes sense to me.

However, there is no way that I can accept that you can generate the same power with flats compared to clipless.

Now people get told that bike shops talk bs when advising people to go clipless. Sorry I dont agree.

IMO: Dont be a softcock. Decide what pedals you want. If it is clipless, buy them, clip in and flippen ride your bike. Ja, you will fall over once or twice. You are going to fall MUCH harder than that in the future if you ride a MTB.

Just my opinion okes so dont wee in your panties.

I was not being a softcock or being facetious, I ride clipless on all my bikes and have never fallen because of them; tried flats once but they did nothing for me.

 

However, I DID go over the bars on Saturday (would have happened no matter the pedals) and did end up on my arse with the bike still attached.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I was not being a softcock or being facetious, I ride clipless on all my bikes and have never fallen because of them; tried flats once but they did nothing for me.

 

However, I DID go over the bars on Saturday (would have happened no matter the pedals) and did end up on my arse with the bike still attached.

Yeah. And I'll say it again. If you have a good base on which to build, then by all means use cleats.

 

I've been where you were with the bike staying attached. It's not fun...

[Thor Buttox]

I will probably sound like a fence sitter here, but I started in cleats and found it extremely difficult so got told to get the clip in black flat pedals as this would be easier.

 

I found them easier to go down reasonably easy single track but awful to learn anything uphill, especially switchbacks. Also, was totally disconnected on anything resembling roots, etc. Now this may have had more to do with being far too tense on the bike and leaving the pedals cos I wasn't relaxed.

 

Having gone through a miserable time learning all this the hard way:

- if you are an absolute beginners, use flats to ride easier trails, but get some advice or go to lessons to learn technique. That is more important than pedal choice.

- clips appear to be better if you are riding trails that aren't too hectic, especially if riding steeper uohills

- don't listen to me if you want to be a downhill maniac!! I know nutting!

[Amberdrake]

The old threads covered this pretty well.

Ride both, depending on terrain and current targets.

Invest in skills training and good pedals (Clipless or flats).

Buy what you can afford! Overspending will not massively improve your life as a beginner, time in the saddle does.

 

Enjoy the ride

[JXV]

For a complete beginner rider you can just start with the cheap plastic pedals that come on the bike while you decide ( take the cages off if fitted). But within a few rides you'll be feeling more used to the bike and then you need to decide which way to go with decent pedals.

 

I changed to cleats within a few months of getting my 1st mtb. That was in 1993. Ridden flats from time to time but I way prefer cleats. There is not much technical stuff I wont ride and its not the pedal choice that makes me hold back when I do because unclipping comes naturally after a while.

 

The pull-stroke is not a myth once you build up the muscles that do it and being able to pedal more smoothly helps enormously on very steep technical climbs and for accelerating past a slower bunch. I also prefer cleats in very bumpy rooty terrain which is what I mostly ride

 

Learning to use cleats is a curve. You will fall a few times, we all did but we survived it The pain will program the ankle twist reflex into your brain very quickly. After that you appreciate the connected feel and the stuff you can do with it.

 

But its your choice entirely. If you're going to end up doing a lot of races then get used to cleats. For trail and technical terrain or a varied mix of general fun riding/exploring the choice is not as clear cut as some of the flat pedal proponents would have you believe.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

For a complete beginner rider you can just start with the cheap plastic pedals

 

NO. Those things are dangerous. 

The pull-stroke is not a myth once you build up the muscles that do it and being able to pedal more smoothly helps enormously on very steep technical climbs and for accelerating past a slower bunch. I also prefer cleats in very bumpy rooty terrain which is what I mostly ride

 

I present to you...

 

http://www.over40cyclist.com/correct-pedalling-technique/

https://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke.html#JV7f7uiYIVAAvEdM.97

http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2016/03/01/the-biomechanics-of-the-pedal-stroke

 

To name a few. Pedalling smoothly does NOT mean pulling on the up stroke. You can still perform the sweep at the bottom of the pedal stroke with flats up until around the 7 to 8 o clock mark to help with the transition. That in itself is not a pull, nor do you get any benefit from cleats in that sector. 

 

*excerpt from the above*

 

• The research says we don’t  – Dr Jeff Broker has done extensive pedalling kinesiology tests on 100 elite and professional cyclists over 10 years and his data shows that not one of them produces a meaningful upstroke. So what hope is there for the rest of us?

Look at the diagram at the top and you will see that even elites and pros have a negative loading on the pedal during the ‘upstream’ or recovery phase of the pedalling circle. That is to say that even they don’t produce enough force at the pedal to offset the effect of gravity on their uphill-moving leg!

http://cdn.coresites.factorymedia.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/pedal-force-diagram.jpg

As for your dig around flat pedal proponents and what we (I) suggest for where, notice I have kept to an alarmingly simple concept - FLATS WHILST LEARNING, THEREAFTER IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

 

I'm not saying "flats are better for everything" - I'm saying that flats are better for beginners who have little to no experience in technical skill and ability. Once they've built up a modicum of skill, THEN they should decide whether they want to move over to cleats, or stay on flats. 

[stefmeister]

I take it that you're a beginner?

 

Start with flats if you want to be a skillful rider, and then get cleats.

 

Basics skills on a mtb to learn;

 

wheelie - yeah sounds stupid, but learn to do a proper wheelie, not just lifting the front wheel for 2 s - that doesn't count. Popping wheelies are useful throughout on the trail to get over obstacles. Also you will learn to balance your bike better and also be more comfortable when your start learning to manual - getting used to the 'pivot' point when your front wheel is in the air. Why do you need flats? In case you overcook it and have to bail out. It's also easier to pop wheelies with cleats for the wrong reason because your feet stays fixed to the pedals. Learn proper technique.

 

Manual - like a wheelie, but more useful and a key skill that forms part of a bunny hop. Performing manuals is necessary for drop-offs and taking jumps. 

Start with flats - overcooking a manual is much easier than a wheelie.

 

Bunny hops - as above.

 

Pumping - learn to be explosive without relying on your cleats to lift the bike.

 

If none of this is important to you and you're just planning to join the rest of the crowd riding 100km dirt roads then clipless is fine.

 

I started with flats, and almost had a bad crash once - went clipless after that thinking it's the right thing. I was wrong and continued with my *** technique for years. Now I'm back on flats to learn all the above mentioned skills, and most importantly unlearn my bad riding techniques. I am still able to beat my times on climbs riding with flats on a 160mm enduro - compared to my times riding a 100mm xc bike with cleats.

On downhills I'm still faster riding clipless, but I enjoy the 'loose' feeling on the bike much more.

[Vetseun]

I was not being a softcock or being facetious, I ride clipless on all my bikes and have never fallen because of them; tried flats once but they did nothing for me.

However, I DID go over the bars on Saturday (would have happened no matter the pedals) and did end up on my arse with the bike still attached.

Sorry Man. Did not try to create the impression that I am calling you a softcock. Not at all! Was rather stating the way I see it. Why buy flats and shoes. Learn to ride. Then buy clipless pedals and shoes. Just take the plunge and go clipless if it is your intention to ultimately go clipless.

[droenn]

flats flats flats.

 

only downside to flats is that your shins develop a nice set of scars..

[Vetseun]

Anyway Okes, We have the clipless gang vs the flats gang.

We differ in opinion from each other. And we argue our points passionately.

Makes life interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And clipless is better

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Sorry Man. Did not try to create the impression that I am calling you a softcock. Not at all! Was rather stating the way I see it.  buy flats and shoes. Learn to ride. Then buy clipless pedals and shoes. Just take the plunge and go clipless if it is your intention to ultimately go clipless.

there we go... 

 

It's been said numerous times that you don't NEED a flat pedal specific shoe. You can use old running shoes, skate shoes, anything with a flattish sole. But what a lot of LBS employees recommend off the bat to rank beginners is to "get cleats cos they're better" - THAT is bad advice.

 

All teh power / pedal stroke / efficiency arguments are a smokescreen. They have no basis in fact.