E - Bikes

[JXV]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Vv0uMhWA4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JJ3f7R7LOo

Ok those look like fun but they aren't mountain bikes. How long do reckon it will be before Cape Nature Conservation bans them on your local trails.

 

5kW is more than the 50cc motorbikes we had as schoolboys ( in the '80s, OK I'm a ballie and they probably more powerful now [emoji3]) and it has potential for serious cumulative trail damage.

 

We have a problem here in Hilton KZN with kids on restricted kiddie MX bikes ripping up local MTB singletrack - these little bikes tear the soil down leaving a thick layer of soft powder that's difficult to ride on.

 

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[Hairy]

Ok those look like fun but they aren't mountain bikes. How long do reckon it will be before Cape Nature Conservation bans them on your local trails.

 

5kW is more than the 50cc motorbikes we had as schoolboys ( in the '80s, OK I'm a ballie and they probably more powerful now [emoji3]) and it has potential for serious cumulative trail damage.

 

We have a problem here in Hilton KZN with kids on restricted kiddie MX bikes ripping up local MTB singletrack - these little bikes tear the soil down leaving a thick layer of soft powder that's difficult to ride on.

 

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agreed, but it shows the direction can (Or will go if given the chance),

 

There are also a couple of sites and clips out there showing how to de-regulate an e-bike/pedal assist bike....guys rocking the 56km mark going uphill on a road whilst pedaling

 

the whole thing just does not sit well with me on a non-motorized trail.

[Skott5]

agreed, but it shows the direction can (Or will go if given the chance),

 

There are also a couple of sites and clips out there showing how to de-regulate an e-bike/pedal assist bike....guys rocking the 56km mark going uphill on a road whilst pedaling

 

the whole thing just does not sit well with me on a non-motorized trail.

 

^^

This. 

The worry is that this will morph into a sub genre of outdoor recreation, that has the potential to ultimately de-rail the whole MTB ethos as we know it.

Petrol powered bikes are restricted from a lot of places because of the ecological damage that can be done. E-bikes are hiding under the guise of bicycles, but how long before they are just as powerful as a small motorbike, ripping up trails and causing mayhem with land owners.

 

I see them as a commuting tool on open roads, and should be regulated like any other powered cycle.

 

A bicycle is a human powered device - there should be no blurred lines .. 

[Headshot]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? 

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. 

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more.

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. 

[Odinson]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? 

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. 

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more.

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. 

 

The Pinkbike comments section has polluted your mind.

 

So much misinformation, assumptions and thumb-sucking in your post, you'd swear this is a first post bike shop rant.

 

I'm somewhat indifferent to e-bikes and probably never buy one, but they're not going away. So just ride your bike and ignore the chap you see on the e-bike. He also just wants to be out there and ride.

[Hairy]

The Pinkbike comments section has polluted your mind.

 

So much misinformation, assumptions and thumb-sucking in your post, you'd swear this is a first post bike shop rant.

 

I'm somewhat indifferent to e-bikes and probably never buy one, but they're not going away. So just ride your bike and ignore the chap you see on the e-bike. He also just wants to be out there and ride.

play the ball, not the man

[Hairy]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? 

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. 

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more.

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. 

trail runners are bliksem fast up the climbs!

[Odinson]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? So, how does this affect anyone in any manner? Strava is a social tool. Will anyone's life be any different because they MAY lose a KOM to an e-bike rider?

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. Just wait. In a few years there will be very nimble e-bikes. Batteries and motors will continue to shrink as the tech is developed. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. Really, dude? That argument is so half-arsed. On what basis do you draw the conclusion that ALL e-bike riders are unfiit and unskilled? Do any marathon race and it'll become very apparent that races don't need e-bike riders to clog up a tech bit. How many of the "A" bunch race snakes you find at MTB events come from a road background and have very limited bike handling skills?

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more. Do you have sufficient evidence that e-bikes cause more damage to a trail than a normal bike?

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. This isn't the USA. 99% of trails here are pay-to-ride, i.e. the host knows and accepts the environmental impact of bikes, electric or not. Other countries have trail networks in public access areas, which necessitates stricter regulation of vehicles allowed. If a trail center in SA doesn't want to allow e-bikes, they can simply exercise their right to admission and you on your normal bike can pass through.

[GLuvsMtb]

One plaas bakkie bike shuttle causes more environmental damage than a hundred E-bikes would. Like it or not, they are here to stay, and as long as you don't need a drivers license to use one, it will legally qualify as a bicycle.

[Pure Savage]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep?

 

As a friend suggested - an ebike won't help too much on tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast.

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more.

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score.

You can just flag them, if you take my KOM with no heart rate cadence or power, flag.

 

 

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[Thor Buttox]

You can just flag them, if you take my KOM with no heart rate cadence or power, flag.

 

 

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Is doing a mini team time-trial using someone else's motor...?

 

Asking for a west-coast friend...

[Spokey]

At this moment in time they are not for me, but.........if I make it to being an over 70 year old ballie, I reckon I might just order me one!

Hoping there will be trails open to me, of course!

[GLuvsMtb]

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep?

So what? Surely Strava will adapt and create better screening to correlate weight, HR, power, gradient, etc. to verify effort? Possibly even have a new category for these guys?

 

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. 

A DH bike circa 2003 weighs more than that.

 

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more.

On shuttle days the same thing happens. The extra charges for the shuttle goes towards the shuttle operator for fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, not the trails, so are you saying that the shuttle guys should pay extra because they do multiple runs?

 

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

Ok, so I weigh 100 kg's and you weigh 80kg's... am I now going to have to pay fatmantax? My buddy weighs 110 and rides a 18kg DH bike, my bike weighs 12,5kg... how much tax must he pay?

 

[Headshot]

The Pinkbike comments section has polluted your mind.

 

So much misinformation, assumptions and thumb-sucking in your post, you'd swear this is a first post bike shop rant.

 

I'm somewhat indifferent to e-bikes and probably never buy one, but they're not going away. So just ride your bike and ignore the chap you see on the e-bike. He also just wants to be out there and ride.

Ya, as Hairy said, don't be a tjop Odball.  I haven't read the comments on PB. You clearly have. I doubt anyone cares whether you are indifferent or not. You haven't even bothered to engage with any of the points I raised. Which by the way, were simply to encourage some banter. You on the other hand simply want to stifle that, and shove your indifference up our asses.  I think you should buy a Turbo Levo and hop it to the max. :-)

 

Oooh, sorry, you did get round to actually commenting on the content of my post  a bit later. Well done!

[Odinson]

 

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? So, how does this affect anyone in any manner? Strava is a social tool. Will anyone's life be any different because they MAY lose a KOM to an e-bike rider?

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. Just wait. In a few years there will be very nimble e-bikes. Batteries and motors will continue to shrink as the tech is developed. The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. Really, dude? That argument is so half-arsed. On what basis do you draw the conclusion that ALL e-bike riders are unfiit and unskilled? Do any marathon race and it'll become very apparent that races don't need e-bike riders to clog up a tech bit. How many of the "A" bunch race snakes you find at MTB events come from a road background and have very limited bike handling skills?

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more. Do you have sufficient evidence that e-bikes cause more damage to a trail than a normal bike?

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. This isn't the USA. 99% of trails here are pay-to-ride, i.e. the host knows and accepts the environmental impact of bikes, electric or not. Other countries have trail networks in public access areas, which necessitates stricter regulation of vehicles allowed. If a trail center in SA doesn't want to allow e-bikes, they can simply exercise their right to admission and you on your normal bike can pass through.

 

 

 

Ya, as Hairy said, don't be a tjop Odball.  I haven't read the comments on PB. You clearly have. I doubt anyone cares whether you are indifferent or not. You haven't even bothered to engage with any of the points I raised. Which by the way, were simply to encourage some banter. You on the other hand simply want to stifle that, and shove your indifference up our asses.  I think you should buy a Turbo Levo and hop it to the max. :-)

 

Heh?

[Headshot]

 

The impact of ebikes will be felt all over. Take social media for example. Imagine the uphill KOM's on Strava being destroyed by some ebike riding smoker with a massive boep? So, how does this affect anyone in any manner? Strava is a social tool. Will anyone's life be any different because they MAY lose a KOM to an e-bike rider?

 

How does it affect anybody in any manner? Tell that to a group of roadie pelle who are battling it out for the Hells Hoogte KOM on Strava?. Its a social athletes tool. Not a motorcycle riders tool. As someone else said, the ride can just be flagged and the EPO wer record will not reflect All ebikes should be sold with a Strava blocking device as standard to save the rest of us having to flag anything...

 

That's a joke btw.

 

As a friend suggested  - an ebike won't help too much on  tech trails and single track that is steep down. The extra weight and poor handling will make them slower in certain situations. Just wait. In a few years there will be very nimble e-bikes. Batteries and motors will continue to shrink as the tech is developed.

Yes of course they will, that goes without saying. I pity to 2016 Levo owner in two years time when the latest svelte model pitches up in the parking lot. It will get easier to cheat on a race as well too. As a bonus :-) 

The problem for us is that these unfit, unskilled riders will then make it to the fun descent before you on your normal bike and then proceed to clog the trail with their 25kg beast. Really, dude? That argument is so half-arsed. On what basis do you draw the conclusion that ALL e-bike riders are unfiit and unskilled? Do any marathon race and it'll become very apparent that races don't need e-bike riders to clog up a tech bit. How many of the "A" bunch race snakes you find at MTB events come from a road background and have very limited bike handling skills? 

I am well aware of the skill level of your average SA bike rider, on and off the road.  I didn't say all were unskilled. You drew that inference. My assumption, and it may be wrong, is that an ebike will appeal to an even more unskilled and unfit rider who needs the assistance to make it up the hill at all.. This I believe will be true in the main. The numbers of ebike riders will never be big enough to actually clog a trail on a race, but I can imagine a new subset of ebike riders at trails closer to urban areas, like Tokai, buzzing around and being horribly slow on the descents. Think of the tourism potential for trail operators  - elderly German tourists can now pedal up the black route at Bains Kloof. Maybe its a good thing, dunno. 

 

Another point is that the ebike rider may well spend more time riding a trail because they can pedal up several more times than a proper biker and in so doing wear the trails out more. Do you have sufficient evidence that e-bikes cause more damage to a trail than a normal bike? You missed the point - its repeat usage of the trail enabled by the epo wa bike. Instead of doing one lap, you now do 3 in half the time. The bike is heavier it hammers the trail a bit more and more often. Simple really.

 

How about a "heavy vehicle surcharge" for e bikes? :-)  You forgot to have a laugh (or take your happy pill this morning?)

 

I think its a matter of time before trail access issues also arise. Part of the reeason MTB has gained so much access to trails and even our own national park is because it is a human and gravity powered sport. We hardly get up hills faster than a trail runner for instance. Ebikes are in an other league on this score. This isn't the USA. 99% of trails here are pay-to-ride, i.e. the host knows and accepts the environmental impact of bikes, electric or not. Other countries have trail networks in public access areas, which necessitates stricter regulation of vehicles allowed. If a trail center in SA doesn't want to allow e-bikes, they can simply exercise their right to admission and you on your normal bike can pass through.

 

We have trails in  nature reserves and national parks here, where motorized vehicles are banned. How soon before these guys notice something strange about the humming bikes with fat frames on the trails and react? We then get into an argument where EPO wer bikes are shoehorned into the MTB category.The most vociferous supporters will of course be bike shop owners and the industry as a whole who are making a mint off these things. But is an ebike really a mountain bike ?

 

BTW I would love an e Bike, I love motorbikes and speed and all that. :-)