awesme Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Hi all Curious to know, for those training on power, what CTL are you targeting before a race ? at the moment I have CTL=75 entered before Callinan 2 Tonteldoos and likewise for Berg and Bush.Wondering if I should be going for something higher? G
Sparkles Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Have a look here:http://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/230904648-Suggested-Weekly-TSS-and-Target-CTL
JA-Q001 Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Your ctl is only part of the equation, showing you an overall fitness based on your training load compared to your ftp. You should look at what you need for the race as well. You get 4 categories of training. Aerobic long and short and anearobic long and short. You can do a lot of miles, this will increase your tss and consequently your ctl, but you will only be endurance fit. Short sharp climbs will push your anaerobic fitness. This is why you should not only concentrate on your ctl, but study your route, know your strengths and weaknesses, and then train the things that will make your race easier. Do this correct and your ctl will have less meaning, basically only showing you if you are slacking or training too much.
ClydeB1 Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 I'm no expert but I would think that TSB is probably the more appropriate figure to target before a race. The higher the CTL, the better BUT only if you are sufficiently rested. So it's a balancing act to try to keep CTL as high as you can whilst at the same time reducing ATL (which will unfortunately at the same time result in a slight drop off in CTL) but resulting in either a positive (or low negative) TSB score. For example it wouldn't help having a CTL of 75 with an ATL of 100 (i.e. TSB of -25) and you'd probably be better off with a CTL of 70 and ATL of 60 (TSB = +10)
awesme Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 agree. The TSB I can manage week or 2 before, to get it slightly positive, and accept the CTL drop.As I'm using TrainingPeaks to map it out and TrainerRoad to provide the workout plan, in addition to my weekend rides, just playing with the balancing act. TrainingPeaks start with a target CTL at race date, that then drives the weekly TSS scores in a 3 week build up and one slower/easier week. and then 3 weeks more / higher build and then a slower week... As such I've set the desired CTL=75 which then drives everything, into this I then plug: For Callinan2Tonteldoos I'm using TrainerRoad's Sustained Power build for the next 8 weeks. Well thats he idea for now... until I make a million bucks and rather get a coach to do all this math for me, G I'm no expert but I would think that TSB is probably the more appropriate figure to target before a race. The higher the CTL, the better BUT only if you are sufficiently rested. So it's a balancing act to try to keep CTL as high as you can whilst at the same time reducing ATL (which will unfortunately at the same time result in a slight drop off in CTL) but resulting in either a positive (or low negative) TSB score. For example it wouldn't help having a CTL of 75 with an ATL of 100 (i.e. TSB of -25) and you'd probably be better off with a CTL of 70 and ATL of 60 (TSB = +10)
awesme Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 This is awesome... Thanks. G Have a look here:http://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/230904648-Suggested-Weekly-TSS-and-Target-CTL
awesme Posted January 20, 2017 Author Posted January 20, 2017 Changing subject to CTL and TSB target before a race... TSB ... some where between 0 and 10/15...Lets see how that number works for me. G
shaper Posted January 20, 2017 Posted January 20, 2017 Changing subject to CTL and TSB target before a race... TSB ... some where between 0 and 10/15...Lets see how that number works for me. GHere with regard to monitoring your tss increase and tsb http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/managing-your-training-stress-balance
jcza Posted January 21, 2017 Posted January 21, 2017 I'm no expert but I would think that TSB is probably the more appropriate figure to target before a race. The higher the CTL, the better BUT only if you are sufficiently rested. So it's a balancing act to try to keep CTL as high as you can whilst at the same time reducing ATL (which will unfortunately at the same time result in a slight drop off in CTL) but resulting in either a positive (or low negative) TSB score. For example it wouldn't help having a CTL of 75 with an ATL of 100 (i.e. TSB of -25) and you'd probably be better off with a CTL of 70 and ATL of 60 (TSB = +10)CTL - ATL does not equal TSB
Sparkles Posted January 22, 2017 Posted January 22, 2017 CTL - ATL does not equal TSBToday's TSB = Yesterday's CTL - Yesterday's ATL
andydude Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Today's TSB = Yesterday's CTL - Yesterday's ATLWhere is that from jc? I know some places calculate the three somewhat differently, e.g. the days in ATL and CTL. Or for TSB use yesterday's values for CTL and ATL instead of today's? Your numbers are all at today. Does your TSB perhaps work out with the day before's CTL minus ATL? Edit: To test, paste that screenshot for today again and then we can see.
Baaisikilist Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 That's Training Peaks. The ATL and CTL are "today", and the TSB is from the previous day. If that makes sense...
awesme Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 See http://blog.trainerroad.com/why-tss-atl-ctl-and-tsb-matter/ Today's CTL = Yesterday's CTL + (Today's TSS - Yesterday's CTL)/Time Constant where Time Constant is in days. Default values of 42 days for CTL and 3-10 days for ATLATL is same formula as CTL, simply use ATL instead and the relevant TCToday's TSB = Yesterday's CTL - Yesterday's ATL That's Training Peaks. The ATL and CTL are "today", and the TSB is from the previous day. If that makes sense...
andydude Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 That's Training Peaks. The ATL and CTL are "today", and the TSB is from the previous day. If that makes sense...It does thanks [emoji106] So if johan does the screenshot today the TSB should be 103.9 - 80 = 20.9 As an aside, I guess using t-1 would be an indication of your form in the morning before a ride/race and using t would give you the evening's form after a ride/race. If that makes sense.
jcza Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Where is that from jc? I know some places calculate the three somewhat differently, e.g. the days in ATL and CTL. Or for TSB use yesterday's values for CTL and ATL instead of today's? Your numbers are all at today. Does your TSB perhaps work out with the day before's CTL minus ATL? Edit: To test, paste that screenshot for today again and then we can see.TrainingPeaks
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