Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[Grease_Monkey]

What are you doing?!?!? Don't you know this is no place for a considered and rational post of the original thread. You crossed the line by actually riding one and having the temerity share that experience. Just like 29 vs 26 vs 650b or clips vs flats or road vs dirt the rules at you pick a random, unfounded, opinion and just be a tool about it!

Hahaha okay, I'll revert back to my original opinion then - ebikes are for fat/old/lazy people and should not be called bicycles in any sense of the word. No self-respecting person should be seen riding one.

[GP-EB]

Quick ride review...

 

My Stumpy's frame is cracked, and my hardtail's wheels are being rebuilt, so I am currently without a bike. So this weekend I borrowed my dad's turbo-levo. Went for a ride with my wife yesterday, she is unfit at the moment (slower than me on a normal bike), and is new to cycling so I rode with her the whole time. Needless to say, I thought the e-bike was a complete waste as I put in literally ZERO effort to get to the top of Helderberg (at my wife's pace).

 

This morning I decided to go see what the bike is really capable of as my only reference was yesterday and a few minutes here and there on the bike a couple of times before. I headed out to Helderberg and put the bike on Eco mode (with 40%) assistance. I got used to the way the bike felt very quickly as my normal bike is a Stumpy and the levo is pretty much a Stumpy with a motor. 

 

This thing is SERIOUSLY fun, and FAST! I got up the mountain in about 30mins compared to my normal 55mins or so (faster than anyone else on Strava - don't worry I did mark this as an e-bike ride so the times won't go onto leader boards). The thing I like though was not so much how fast I could get up the mountain, it was how much fun I could have doing it - where I am normally panting and gasping for air I was cruising up, launching over roots, wheelying, and just fooling around. 

 

And yes, you can fool yourself by cruising up the mountain slowly - but you can also push hard and get the same workout in as you would on your normal bike - you'll just cover twice the distance.

 

On the way down I was a bit frustrated because the clutch on the derailleur is worn out and I kept dropping the chain, but from the few times I could open up and let go of the brakes I realised that the extra weight gives you a serious amount of stability. Jumps are a bit harder, but still possible - it might just take some getting used to. I found the Guide R brakes to be lacking in power - I would spec some 4 pot callipers on a bike like this. The tyres (Maxxis Ikon+ and Rekon+ were not aggressive enough and I would replace with Spaz Butcher 2.8" immediately if this was my bike). Other than that the spec is bang on - the Yari fork is great, and the fox float is good. GX 11 speed is also good, but I'd prefer the 7 speed e-bike drivetrain - 11 gears on a bike like this is just not necessary at all.

 

So bottom line - what's my opinion on e-bikes (based on the Spaz Turbo Levo Comp alu version)? I LOVE THEM. I am not going to be replacing my bike with it - ever. BUT, if I had the spare cash lying around I would want one for the following reasons:

 

- I can do 2 runs of Helderberg in an hour - top to bottom, where I can usually only do one. Ideal when you only have short periods of time. And yes, when gassing it up it is just as much a workout as a normal bike - my heart rate was very high.

- It makes the climbs enjoyable (in a different way than being in the pain cave)

- You can load the bike up with every aggressive and heavy part your heart desires because weight doesn't matter.

- IF I were ever to get an e-bike it would be one with a ton of travel - a coil shock and fork, seriously aggressive tyres, and some monster brakes. 

 

Why would I not get one?

 

- They can get you into trouble - you do single track at twice the speed you usually do and can run out of skill before you blink. I don't think these bikes belong in the hands of beginners. 

- Unless all your friends also have e-bikes you are going to be riding on your own.

- It's not as flickable and fun when the trail points down.

- They are expensive to maintain - chains need to be replaced often, and batteries go for 14k a pop - you will cry when it comes time to replace yours.

- Limited time spent on the bike because of battery life (although this isn't too much of a drawback as I would want the bike for when I only have an hour or two to ride) 

- People judge you - seriously - people look at me like I just ran over their dog when I ride past them.

 

Anyway, that's my 2c worth. I can't wait to get my bikes back so I can ride again, but in the mean time I will be enjoying my dad's Levo!

 

EDIT: My 2c on e-bikes in races...

 

Should NOT be allowed ever! Even in their own categories. I did a race a while back where this one lady was on an e-bike, she overtook me on every hill, then we would get to single track downhill and she went snails pace - caused massive bottle neck and would not let anyone pass. Once I eventually got past it was fine... but then on the next hill she comes cruising past and we sit with the same situation on the next bit of single track all over again. 

 

If people wanna race e-bikes, they should have their own events, on at the very least, their own routes that are not shared with people on normal bikes.

There is one thing seemingly over looked, we are getting up to 1000 riders in our local MTB events, most probably 90% of these riders are there for the social aspect of mountain biking, its also this 90% that make theses events financially viable for the organizers. It's within this sector, where the need for e-bikes are the greatest allowing family and friends to enjoy the event together. So why are a few racing snakes and CSA dictating the mood and rules of the events when they should be out front out of site of any e-bikes anyway. Or maybe I'm wrong and the mood are being driven by some wannabe's that will never be upfront but have ego's like they are.    

[Grease_Monkey]

There is one thing seemingly over looked, we are getting up to 1000 riders in our local MTB events, most probably 90% of these riders are there for the social aspect of mountain biking, its also this 90% that make theses events financially viable for the organizers. It's within this sector, where the need for e-bikes are the greatest allowing family and friends to enjoy the event together. So why are a few racing snakes and CSA dictating the mood and rules of the events when they should be out front out of site of any e-bikes anyway. Or maybe I'm wrong and the mood are being driven by some wannabe's that will never be upfront but have ego's like they are.    

 

 

I'm not a racing snake by any means - so take this from where it comes - someone that just wants to enjoy races.

 

I am strong technically, I love single track, and I enjoy that aspect of a race. I am not racing for a podium, nor will I ever be. BUT, it is not enjoyable to ride behind someone at snails pace on single track - it's frustrating and kills the experience for me. And no, I don't have an issue waiting for people slightly slower than me.

 

My issue is this - yesterday I managed to get up Helderberg faster than pros who have posted time there - I am 100kg and not particularly fit. e-bikes don't allow the unfit to ride with their families - it puts the unfit and inexperienced in a position to be as fast as professionals and ride in the section of a race where they do not belong - that is dangerous in the worst case, and irritating at the very least because they cause congestion as soon as skill is required, and race past where fitness is required.

 

Saying that people should just enjoy the race and not care about their time is immature - races are there to race - as fast as YOU can. If that means ending up 400th, or 1st - it does not matter. Seeding is there for a reason - you ride with others in the same general level as you allowing the traffic to flow on trails and for everyone to enjoy the ride. E-bikes mess that up completely (see my previous post for the situations I am speaking about) - and for that reason I believe they should not be allowed in races. If you are truly there just to enjoy the scenery and a fun day out with family - please go for it, but why are you doing a race then? You can do that anywhere at any time without holding others up.

 

Oh and races are completely viable without the need for e-bikes, there are 88 stage races every year on our calendar that proves my point. If the demand really is so high from e-bike users for races then surely those races could be organised and there would be support? Or at the very least separate routes at events?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Grease_Monkey

[Patchelicious]

I'm not a racing snake by any means - so take this from where it comes - someone that just wants to enjoy races.

 

I am strong technically, I love single track, and I enjoy that aspect of a race. I am not racing for a podium, nor will I ever be. BUT, it is not enjoyable to ride behind someone at snails pace on single track - it's frustrating and kills the experience for me. And no, I don't have an issue waiting for people slightly slower than me.

 

My issue is this - yesterday I managed to get up Helderberg faster than pros who have posted time there - I am 100kg and not particularly fit. e-bikes don't allow the unfit to ride with their families - it puts the unfit and inexperienced in a position to be as fast as professionals and ride in the section of a race where they do not belong - that is dangerous in the worst case, and irritating at the very least because they cause congestion as soon as skill is required, and race past where fitness is required.

 

Saying that people should just enjoy the race and not care about their time is immature - races are there to race - as fast as YOU can. If that means ending up 400th, or 1st - it does not matter. Seeding is there for a reason - you ride with others in the same general level as you allowing the traffic to flow on trails and for everyone to enjoy the ride. E-bikes mess that up completely (see my previous post for the situations I am speaking about) - and for that reason I believe they should not be allowed in races. If you are truly there just to enjoy the scenery and a fun day out with family - please go for it, but why are you doing a race then? You can do that anywhere at any time without holding others up.

 

Oh and races are completely viable without the need for e-bikes, there are 88 stage races every year on our calendar that proves my point. If the demand really is so high from e-bike users for races then surely those races could be organised and there would be support? Or at the very least separate routes at events?

Great point of view.

[Eldron]

I thought we had already solved this. Emotorbikes are cool on trails but uncool in races ????????

[Grease_Monkey]

I thought we had already solved this. Emotorbikes are cool on trails but uncool in races

 

But I feel like arguing with someone 

[Patchelicious]

But I feel like arguing with someone 

 

[GLuvsMtb]

I'm not a racing snake by any means - so take this from where it comes - someone that just wants to enjoy races.

 

I am strong technically, I love single track, and I enjoy that aspect of a race. I am not racing for a podium, nor will I ever be. BUT, it is not enjoyable to ride behind someone at snails pace on single track - it's frustrating and kills the experience for me. And no, I don't have an issue waiting for people slightly slower than me.

 

My issue is this - yesterday I managed to get up Helderberg faster than pros who have posted time there - I am 100kg and not particularly fit. e-bikes don't allow the unfit to ride with their families - it puts the unfit and inexperienced in a position to be as fast as professionals and ride in the section of a race where they do not belong - that is dangerous in the worst case, and irritating at the very least because they cause congestion as soon as skill is required, and race past where fitness is required.

 

Saying that people should just enjoy the race and not care about their time is immature - races are there to race - as fast as YOU can. If that means ending up 400th, or 1st - it does not matter. Seeding is there for a reason - you ride with others in the same general level as you allowing the traffic to flow on trails and for everyone to enjoy the ride. E-bikes mess that up completely (see my previous post for the situations I am speaking about) - and for that reason I believe they should not be allowed in races. If you are truly there just to enjoy the scenery and a fun day out with family - please go for it, but why are you doing a race then? You can do that anywhere at any time without holding others up.

 

Oh and races are completely viable without the need for e-bikes, there are 88 stage races every year on our calendar that proves my point. If the demand really is so high from e-bike users for races then surely those races could be organised and there would be support? Or at the very least separate routes at events?

Saved me a post here. To add: let the e bikers organize e bike races and then allow regular bikes as well rather than the other way around.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Eldron]

Saved me a post here. To add: let the e bikers organize e bike races and then allow regular bikes as well rather than the other way around.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yup. There is a growing "ride not race" trend so more and more rides will be ebike friendly. I still don't understand the logic of wanting to enter a race then motordoping the race. It's kinda banned in racing...

[GP-EB]

I'm not a racing snake by any means - so take this from where it comes - someone that just wants to enjoy races.

 

I am strong technically, I love single track, and I enjoy that aspect of a race. I am not racing for a podium, nor will I ever be. BUT, it is not enjoyable to ride behind someone at snails pace on single track - it's frustrating and kills the experience for me. And no, I don't have an issue waiting for people slightly slower than me.

 

My issue is this - yesterday I managed to get up Helderberg faster than pros who have posted time there - I am 100kg and not particularly fit. e-bikes don't allow the unfit to ride with their families - it puts the unfit and inexperienced in a position to be as fast as professionals and ride in the section of a race where they do not belong - that is dangerous in the worst case, and irritating at the very least because they cause congestion as soon as skill is required, and race past where fitness is required.

 

Saying that people should just enjoy the race and not care about their time is immature - races are there to race - as fast as YOU can. If that means ending up 400th, or 1st - it does not matter. Seeding is there for a reason - you ride with others in the same general level as you allowing the traffic to flow on trails and for everyone to enjoy the ride. E-bikes mess that up completely (see my previous post for the situations I am speaking about) - and for that reason I believe they should not be allowed in races. If you are truly there just to enjoy the scenery and a fun day out with family - please go for it, but why are you doing a race then? You can do that anywhere at any time without holding others up.

 

Oh and races are completely viable without the need for e-bikes, there are 88 stage races every year on our calendar that proves my point. If the demand really is so high from e-bike users for races then surely those races could be organised and there would be support? Or at the very least separate routes at events?

You seem to have a very narrow perspective and experience of e-bikes and MTB racing in general. I have started many mtb races in the middle of the shoot with all kind of level of riders around me just to get to the first single track section with tons of very slow riders in front of me "messing things up" so how you can single out e-bikes as the only culprits, that's just ridicules special with so few e-bikes around. Your scenario can still play it self out in years to come I'm sure, but not right now. When that happens it will become viable to have separate e-bike events. You should be more concerned about roadies with big legs and no technical skills at this time. A qualified opinion is always the best one.

[Eldron]

You seem to have a very narrow perspective and experience of e-bikes and MTB racing in general. I have started many mtb races in the middle of the shoot with all kind of level of riders around me just to get to the first single track section with tons of very slow riders in front of me "messing things up" so how you can single out e-bikes as the only culprits, that's just ridicules special with so few e-bikes around. Your scenario can still play it self out in years to come I'm sure, but not right now. When that happens it will become viable to have separate e-bike events. You should be more concerned about roadies with big legs and no technical skills at this time. A qualified opinion is always the best one.

 

You missed the point... Ebikes allow people with less fitness than you to get to the single track before you. At least people using their own legs deserve to be there.

 

Whilst seeding isn't a perfect measure of skill there is at least a correlation between fitness, experience and tech skills.

 

#justsaynotomotordoping.

[Patchelicious]

You seem to have a very narrow perspective and experience of e-bikes and MTB racing in general. I have started many mtb races in the middle of the shoot with all kind of level of riders around me just to get to the first single track section with tons of very slow riders in front of me "messing things up" so how you can single out e-bikes as the only culprits, that's just ridicules special with so few e-bikes around. Your scenario can still play it self out in years to come I'm sure, but not right now. When that happens it will become viable to have separate e-bike events. You should be more concerned about roadies with big legs and no technical skills at this time. A qualified opinion is always the best one.

An unbiased opinion is even better. Edited May 9, 2018 by Patchelicious

[GP-EB]

Yup. There is a growing "ride not race" trend so more and more rides will be ebike friendly. I still don't understand the logic of wanting to enter a race then motordoping the race. It's kinda banned in racing...

Not if all the motor dopers are in there own class. I also don't understand female mtb racing when they have men cycling with them, pushing and pacing them or the fact that I have never seen a single drug test done at a local mtb race. What about that there are most of the time no marshals checking for people taking short cuts, we have all had that moment of how did this person get back in front of me. I'm cant even stop thinking about two people peddling one bicycle whilst I must pedal by myself. Now what about that rich guy with his 8kg full suspension bike that I have to compete against with my 14kg Gaint, how is that allowed. This is exactely why riding rather than racing is better because then none of this including motor dopers worry you. 

[Npatricio]

I am convinced that ebikes are here to stay... so instead of fighting it, better to find solutions that fit all, for example if ebikes start an event 30m after the last bike group the likelihood of bottlenecks are much lower... definitely I don't think they shouldn't start together ever, but I do think is great for MTB that more people join, ebike will help on that!

[Grease_Monkey]

You seem to have a very narrow perspective and experience of e-bikes and MTB racing in general. I have started many mtb races in the middle of the shoot with all kind of level of riders around me just to get to the first single track section with tons of very slow riders in front of me "messing things up" so how you can single out e-bikes as the only culprits, that's just ridicules special with so few e-bikes around. Your scenario can still play it self out in years to come I'm sure, but not right now. When that happens it will become viable to have separate e-bike events. You should be more concerned about roadies with big legs and no technical skills at this time. A qualified opinion is always the best one.

You are missing my point completely. And by the way - I've been racing bikes for about 15 years, so I would say I have a fairly qualified and informed opinion. Sure, there are other riders that can "mess things up", but if they do so under their own power it's fair game. Do it with a motor and it's not. Simple as that.

[Grease_Monkey]

I am convinced that ebikes are here to stay... so instead of fighting it, better to find solutions that fit all, for example if ebikes start an event 30m after the last bike group the likelihood of bottlenecks are much lower... definitely I don't think they shouldn't start together ever, but I do think is great for MTB that more people join, ebike will help on that!

Spot on, they are here to stay. So a solution should be found - yours is actually quite a good suggestion....