dave303e Posted July 16, 2017 Share The great thing about scientific papers is that they are strictly fact based, not options of the authors. Falsifying or distorting the information presented is a VERY serious offence and can result in the authors being stripped of their credentials, like the anti-vaccine (former dr) Andrew Wakefield. They may choose not to publish if the results don't suit them but that is hardly unexpected. The scientific process may have its hickups, but the process works well when followed through without making hasty conclusions. The far bigger problem is that public belief of what the facts are is often far from the truth, and social media is only making this worse. "Someone on the internet says....". Funny enough Outside Online had interesting article where they point out losing respect for someone because they spend more time fighting on twitter than in scientific journals, quite a long but fairly interesting read. https://www.outsideonline.com/2140271/silencing-low-carb-rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lechatnoir Posted July 16, 2017 Share It is not really the drop in carbohydrates, it is the increase in saturated fats. Fats, specifically saturated fats significantly increase insulin resistance. (Rat study but close enough, http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/40/11/1397.short) Most of the high-fat studies being performed are on obese people. Their insulin resistance seems to come down during the study but that is probably the effect of weight loss. Up until the factors cross over. I had copy of a study that talked about the cross over effect but I can't for the life of me find it. The following article is very interesting "food for thought" on the whole low/high carb debate.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170317132004.htm Not buying into rat studies myself, and the link's broken anyway. The other link says this: "Therefore, HCF diets may improve carbohydrate economy by enhanced peripheral sensitivity to insulin." - not being picky, but 'may' seems a bit wishy washy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted July 17, 2017 Share Not buying into rat studies myself, and the link's broken anyway. The other link says this: "Therefore, HCF diets may improve carbohydrate economy by enhanced peripheral sensitivity to insulin." - not being picky, but 'may' seems a bit wishy washy to me.Thats just science talk. You cannot definitively state that it does, because you work with probability.It is bound by the study population and study design, so it also cannot (simply) be generalised to the entire population, not to mention the outliers Lets put it this way - where there is smoke, there is usually fire, event if that smoke (for now) comes from rats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristand Posted July 17, 2017 Share Not buying into rat studies myself, and the link's broken anyway. The other link says this: "Therefore, HCF diets may improve carbohydrate economy by enhanced peripheral sensitivity to insulin." - not being picky, but 'may' seems a bit wishy washy to me.The role of saturated fats in insulin resistance is well established.Couple of papers that appeared on a search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15297079http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/1/1.shorthttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-006-0211-x Like I said, the role of saturated fats in insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome is very well established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allrounder Posted July 17, 2017 Share Would this not be more accurate if they took someone on an avr diet with avr fitness, and moved him/her over to HFLC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lechatnoir Posted July 17, 2017 Share The role of saturated fats in insulin resistance is well established.Couple of papers that appeared on a search: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15297079http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/1/1.shorthttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-006-0211-x Like I said, the role of saturated fats in insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome is very well established. Thanks for this. Interesting reading, but not much help to me on my current journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 17, 2017 Share Would this not be more accurate if they took someone on an avr diet with avr fitness, and moved him/her over to HFLC? Been a while since I did research ... but remember a time when you took a "sample population", divided them into a test group and a reference group ..... do the experiment (length being a functional topic on its own ...), then compare the test and sample groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted July 17, 2017 Share It's kind of cute, how the keyboard scientists are speculating on this and discounting a group of people who are wanting to research something a little more thoroughly. Let the guys do their study before finding fault with it. Research is usually a good thing and should be encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allrounder Posted July 17, 2017 Share I agree Patch. I have never tried HFLC before. Thats why I am asking if it would not be of more value to take someone like me, and test this, rather than somebody who is fit and on a good diet already. Honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted July 17, 2017 Share I agree Patch. I have never tried HFLC before. Thats why I am asking if it would not be of more value to take someone like me, and test this, rather than somebody who is fit and on a good diet already. Honest question.I think it depends on what they are wanting to research. If they want to see progress on adapted guys, then no. But if they want to research dietary changes then yes. Sign up.... see what they say. Will be good motivation to train too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubber Posted July 17, 2017 Share I agree Patch. I have never tried HFLC before. Thats why I am asking if it would not be of more value to take someone like me, and test this, rather than somebody who is fit and on a good diet already. Honest question. By looking at the ad (and I could well be wrong here), they are looking to compare the markers of a person already on a low carb diet. They are not looking to compare before and after markers as a person changes diet. Just guessing here - but that's what I'm assuming from the ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 17, 2017 Share By looking at the ad (and I could well be wrong here), they are looking to compare the markers of a person already on a low carb diet. They are not looking to compare before and after markers as a person changes diet. Just guessing here - but that's what I'm assuming from the ad. THIS is the bit that has me commenting .... the add does NOT make much sense. Not seen on its own, not without a control group, and certainly not without a "before" and "after" evaluation to actually tie results to something .... but maybe medical research is different to engineering research I am used to .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
box2trail Posted July 17, 2017 Share Hi all Thanks for your debate around the study. Glad to see it sparked some interest! To clarify the nature of our study: we are first testing cyclists who are habitually adapted to a LCHF diet (eating this way for at least 6 months) to identify traditional respiratory thresholds and see how they predict performance. This is because all well-known thresholds have only been validated in athletes consuming high-carbohydrate diets, and the picture looks a whole lot different in LCHF athletes we have tested. Thus we are merely assessing the validity and reliability ot these thresholds, or perhaps identifying novel thresholds, in LCHF athletes. After we have recruited and tested our target sample size of LCHF athletes, we will be recruiting athletes on a high-carbohydrate diet who are matched to the LCHF individuals in terms of age, training experience and performance level, and we will compare between groups the relationships between their respiratory thresholds and performance. That way in the future, researchers will be able to cater for dietary intake in their assessments of physiological parameters and prescriptions of training zones. Hope this makes sense! Please volunteer if you are interested and think you are eligible:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allrounder Posted July 17, 2017 Share Thanks for the clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 17, 2017 Share Aaaahhh .... that makes a LOT more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
box2trail Posted July 24, 2017 Share Hi all! We are still recruiting well-trained cyclists following a Low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet! Please spread the word and let anyone know who you think may be eligible:) Happy riding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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