V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share You are obviously a fanboy!Not so much - not a big fan of private school boys... That said - he is a gentleman - even took selfies of me and eddy... stopped mid ride to take photos of us... even asked if we wanted a selfie.... although I suspect being handed the camera was not what he expected..... but he took it well - very well indeed. I am however in awe of his ability to shoot red lights at speed in jhb traffic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share Let's all take up chess!I agree - Chess improves thinking abilities.... something a few people could use..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bateleur1 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Not so much - not a big fan of private school boys... That said - he is a gentleman - even took selfies of me and eddy... stopped mid ride to take photos of us... even asked if we wanted a selfie.... although I suspect being handed the camera was not what he expected..... but he took it well - very well indeed. I am however in awe of his ability to shoot red lights at speed in jhb traffic.... Now the Hub is going to spin in a tantrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share I hear you, from my understanding though the oral dose is way way higher than the inhaler... it's banned for that reason. It has an anabolic effect - so I'm guessing it's not double or triple the inhaler, but more like 10 times, but would need some clarity on that. The other thing is this reading would now be a combination of his inhaler and the possible oral dose taken in the off season... It is 100% all speculation though... I don't know, but it's there, and it shouldn't be there, and the idea that he was winning the Vuelta while suffering kidney failure and asthma issues seems beyond ridiculously far fetched. Hopefully the far smarter people out there will solve this little puzzle. Inhaled salbutamol is usually 100 or 200 mcg per puffSalbutamol syrup is 2mg/5mlTabs are usually 4mg/tab BIG difference between 1 mcg and 1mg...... if an anaethetist gets it mixed up while giving you dope - you will die...... The absorbtion rates are quite different though - so not really comparable between oral and inhaled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Steer Posted January 17, 2018 Share See my previous comment set - imagine a situation where he was dehydrated the day before, was nauseaous and threw up all night (makes dehydration worse), and then missed a bottle or two (not helped by UCI's stupid no feeding in the last few km rule) and cleared normal dosages at normal rates but produced little urine... personally I would think it is possible, if not probable.Would be interesting to see... he wasn't dehydrated or throwing up the night before though. And if so he wouldn't have had a cracking ride and dispatched all his competitors in the GC. I hear you on his defense argument though, the dehydration angle seems his best bet based on your knowledge, and let's see if they can recreate it too? It still doesn't add up for me personally though, but that is my opinion and everybody needs to make up their own mind... Thanks for the replies, I'll have a look at the studies on the links you supplied when I have some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Steer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Inhaled salbutamol is usually 100 or 200 mcg per puffSalbutamol syrup is 2mg/5mlTabs are usually 4mg/tab BIG difference between 1 mcg and 1mg...... if an anaethetist gets it mixed up while giving you dope - you will die...... The absorbtion rates are quite different though - so not really comparable between oral and inhaled. Yeah, you will see I dug up the values in my later post... Absorbtion rates is another dynamic to add into the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoli Posted January 17, 2018 Share Thanks for the factual info and talking sense and of course the not pointing of fingers. Patchanditches, you've gone quiet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 17, 2018 Share Thanks for the link, this is why I asked the question because everyone gets in a flap about 7W/ kg without putting it into perspective from a time point of view. 7W/kg for a few minutes is probably normal for a cyclist of his calibre ie at the top of the pro pilePerhaps this helps put W/Kg, over time, into perspective. http://home.trainingpeaks.com/getmedia/a4f43215-cd08-4a58-93b8-b9c8801727fa/PowerProfile Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share Ummmmm.... https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/top-grandmaster-claims-chess-is-riddled-with-cheats-using-smartphones https://deadspin.com/5108619/doping-scandal-threatens-to-destroy-the-world-of--chess In conclusion - people are arseholes.Phones and electronic devices are banned from the hall in chess tournaments - even for officials - world class events even have signal jammers in place these days. As to drugs in chess - please try your sons ADD meds when you are under pressure at work... ritalin is endemic at schools and universities - especially during exam times.... for people without diagnosed ADD...... same as beta blockers amongst golfers.... for athletes without cardiac issues..... OK - please do not try unprescribed meds under ALL circumstances - I am merely making the point in jest that drug usage is prevalent in many sports and activities - for a reason - they improve performance - legal or illegal, moral or immoral - the right substance at the right time does change the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velouria Posted January 17, 2018 Share Do you have a source that backs up the 7W /Kg claim, that’s the realm of world class / world champions Don't come at me with sources and facts and reality and stuff. “Chris’s peak power is 525 watts, which corresponds to 7.51w/kg: a massive figure,” Swart said. “But the interesting thing is that the (sustained) figure of 6w/kg — which is basically what he produced in the lab — is 79.8 per cent of his peak power. That’s a completely reasonable percentage.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmJayZA Posted January 17, 2018 Share Bah, transparency from all involved in cycling... not gonna happen, you'd have a better chance of beating Sagan up the Koppenberg... Transparency is not the answer either. I suggest everyone just let the specialists do their thing. No matter how transparent a process is, there is still too much room for armchair commentators to not understand the reasoning behind the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share Would be interesting to see... he wasn't dehydrated or throwing up the night before though. And if so he wouldn't have had a cracking ride and dispatched all his competitors in the GC. I hear you on his defense argument though, the dehydration angle seems his best bet based on your knowledge, and let's see if they can recreate it too? It still doesn't add up for me personally though, but that is my opinion and everybody needs to make up their own mind... Thanks for the replies, I'll have a look at the studies on the links you supplied when I have some time I did read somewhere that he was dehydrated the day before - before the test was public - as to details of that - I have none... but it is a VERY fine line between dehydrated and normal for these guys - doesn't take much in reduced intake to go below the line - often it takes them 30 minutes to an hour to produce any urine at all for the test after getting off the bike - often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted January 17, 2018 Share Phones and electronic devices are banned from the hall in chess tournaments - even for officials - world class events even have signal jammers in place these days. As to drugs in chess - please try your sons ADD meds when you are under pressure at work... ritalin is endemic at schools and universities - especially during exam times.... for people without diagnosed ADD...... same as beta blockers amongst golfers.... for athletes without cardiac issues..... OK - please do not try unprescribed meds under ALL circumstances - I am merely making the point in jest that drug usage is prevalent in many sports and activities - for a reason - they improve performance - legal or illegal, moral or immoral - the right substance at the right time does change the game.The common is all of this is the will of some people to be better at something than their ability and fortitude allow. How much time and money is wastd on these cheaters. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted January 17, 2018 Share How much time and money is wastd on these cheaters. It's ridiculous.True - that's a moral judgement - I will stay out of that minefield... BUT - if Ritalin had been around when I was at varsity - I am sure I would have used it during exams - it's worth easily 20% - still - hindsight is 20/20.... one has to ask the question if it's not legitimate to use performance improvement meds in some circumstances - personally I think it is - what would you say to your son's neurosurgeon taking a stimulant like ritalin when he is operating on something tricky inside your son's/wife/daughter/father/mother's brain? life or disablement/death stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoli Posted January 17, 2018 Share True - that's a moral judgement - I will stay out of that minefield... BUT - if Ritalin had been around when I was at varsity - I am sure I would have used it during exams - it's worth easily 20% - still - hindsight is 20/20.... one has to ask the question if it's not legitimate to use performance improvement meds in some circumstances - personally I think it is - what would you say to your son's neurosurgeon taking a stimulant like ritalin when he is operating on something tricky inside your son's/wife/daughter/father/mother's brain? life or disablement/death stuff?How does it work? Asking for a friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted January 17, 2018 Share True - that's a moral judgement - I will stay out of that minefield... BUT - if Ritalin had been around when I was at varsity - I am sure I would have used it during exams - it's worth easily 20% - still - hindsight is 20/20.... one has to ask the question if it's not legitimate to use performance improvement meds in some circumstances - personally I think it is - what would you say to your son's neurosurgeon taking a stimulant like ritalin when he is operating on something tricky inside your son's/wife/daughter/father/mother's brain? life or disablement/death stuff?Fortunately we're spared the morality thanks to rules and laws. If you want to take ritilan to write exams I'm okay with that because there isn't a rule against it. Everyone can take it if they want. It's when it's an unlawful advantage that I get a little testy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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