Homeschoolers Not Welcome at Spur MTB League

[PygaSchmyga]

Wow. Two things stand out for me here. The first is the shattering ignorance that folk have with regards to homeschooling. How can a homeschooled child "not be at school"!

 

The second is that Spur poked the cat because they were not clear as to WHY homeschoolers can't compete. It's simple, and the argument of being bound to the mainstream school system and performance within that makes total sense. They handled this really badly, so in my book this whole fallout is their fault because of that. 

 

 

seriously?

 

Reading is a gift

[Eldron]

The pandora's box starts to open.  Menlyn Park, WonderboomSuid and Affies have teams riding in the league and hypothetically they are racing the last race and the points are close, and a ghost rider blocks the Affies kid in the sprint or bridges a Menlynpark breakaway dragging the Wonderboom sprinter back into the breakaway or lets a gap develop on the single track blocking half of one teams members out of the break?  Then the teams decide to "Sort" the "problem" out afterwards?

 

or worse, on a long gravel road the teams adopt road racing tactics and attack the lone "homeschooler" to destruction, or the homeschooler's agree to "ride" leadout for a weaker school's sprinter?

 

Being an individual, participant in a team event again undermines the integrity of the event.

 

The best solution suggested so far is for the Homeschooling representative body (if such a body exists)  to request permission to enter a "homeschool" team as a school team in the league.  In this way we can compare apples with apples, and not apples with pears.

All of the whatifififif scenarios you have dreamt up could quite easily happen with a kid from a smaller school or some school entry. A few home schoolers will not change the racing. Plus MTB is much less Peleton based than road. XCO even less so.

[Danger Dassie]

Here is a small rub - they ARE part of the school system - they are registered, monitored, approved of and have legal requirements and curriculae provided by government - and they are inspected by government and tested as well - how can they not be part of the school system?

 

For the record - my kids are not home schooled - but I understand why parents/kids sometimes prefer the home schooling route - and believe me, it is in no way easier for the kids or parents than regular schooling.

Further to your earlier response on the same page this is a perfectly articulated and reasonable statement. 

 

Hope it receives the appropriate acknowledgment above and beyond. 

[Andrew Steer]

Here's a crazy question, what if having home schoolers is not good for the greater good of the league?

How would home schoolers on the podiums reflect on official schools? What if you have a podium one day of only home schoolers - after all they don't have the constraints of a formal school upbringing to cut into their training time. Hard to get in enough training when you are at school from 7am to 3pm? Would the schools support the league still if they aren't getting the results... are schools not largely judged on results?

 

How would all the schools feel when they start losing pupils to home schooling because it allows kids to focus on their cycling above their general education? Schools are businesses too. Home schooling is unfortunately in opposition to traditional schooling methods. 

Are most of these events not on school grounds? Should the ethos of schools not be embraced on these grounds? The success of these events is down to the by-in of schools. It's been a long process to get this league to where it is today. The Gauteng league has exploded with the buy-in of local schools and if I am not mistaken, numbers wise it's almost bigger than all the rest of the country combined.

Are we more interested in keeping a few people who have made a very specific choice happy over the greater good of a series that does fantastic things? I am not sure sure, even as much as I can see how unfair it might feel for this young lady. 

Sometimes you just can't make everyone happy - but if you want to participate in a school series where the ethos is focused on participation as well as competition, then best you be part of a school.

[Eldron]

Here is a small rub - they ARE part of the school system - they are registered, monitored, approved of and have legal requirements and curriculae provided by government - and they are inspected by government and tested as well - how can they not be part of the school system?

 

For the record - my kids are not home schooled - but I understand why parents/kids sometimes prefer the home schooling route - and believe me, it is in no way easier for the kids or parents than regular schooling.

They are only part of the school system in name only (apart from home schoolers that have agreements with traditional schools for sports and such).

 

By all means get your home schooled kid to race for your home school. No harm no foul. I'm all for the home schoolers taking part.

[Paddaman]

All of the whatifififif scenarios you have dreamt up could quite easily happen with a kid from a smaller school or some school entry. A few home schoolers will not change the racing. Plus MTB is much less Peleton based than road. XCO even less so.

All that is then required is simply this, a Home School representative body (with suitable record of constituency) needs to engage the Gauteng organisers to allow the registration of all home-school children into one category/school. 

 

This will then allow the kids to participate as full participants and not as "ghost riders" and the Home School Body can then also award achievement incentives to their members.

 

To have individual parents approaching event organiser's on the day of the events to include little johnny in the event, or to attempt to blackball the title sponsor or even to engage the league organizers on an individual adhoc basis will not bear any results, and could get you labeled as a nuisance, rather than a concerned and involved roleplayer.

 

The problem is not with the sponsor, the league organiser, the rules or with the school sport system, but rather with the inability of the homeschooling system to look after the collective sport interests of home schooled children.  If you cannot bargain collectively, you have no bargaining power.

[Danger Dassie]

Here's a crazy question, what if having home schoolers is not good for the greater good of the league?

How would home schoolers on the podiums reflect on official schools? What if you have a podium one day of only home schoolers - after all they don't have the constraints of a formal school upbringing to cut into their training time. Hard to get in enough training when you are at school from 7am to 3pm? Would the schools support the league still if they aren't getting the results... are schools not largely judged on results?

 

How would all the schools feel when they start losing pupils to home schooling because it allows kids to focus on their cycling above their general education? Schools are businesses too. Home schooling is unfortunately in opposition to traditional schooling methods. 

 

Are most of these events not on school grounds? Should the ethos of schools not be embraced on these grounds? The success of these events is down to the by-in of schools. It's been a long process to get this league to where it is today. The Gauteng league has exploded with the buy-in of local schools and if I am not mistaken, numbers wise it's almost bigger than all the rest of the country combined.

 

Are we more interested in keeping a few people who have made a very specific choice happy over the greater good of a series that does fantastic things? I am not sure sure, even as much as I can see how unfair it might feel for this young lady. 

 

Sometimes you just can't make everyone happy - but if you want to participate in a school series where the ethos is focused on participation as well as competition, then best you be part of a school.

This entire argument is semantic at best and the question posed has actually been answered in a number of well articulated and objective posts here already. Or is the real resistance from the schools and some governing bodies themselves? 

 

There is no predetermined unfairness in allowing home schooled learners to take part. Otherwise do away with the whole podium nonsense anyway. The very nature of their participation contributes to the strength of the series as a whole.

Here's another question, what about the kids whose parents have deep pockets and are able to rock up on sub 10kg bikes costing 100k or more?

[Paddaman]

Here's another question, what about the kids whose parents have deep pockets and are able to rock up on sub 10kg bikes costing 100k or more?

.

 

This is where part of the problem starts........

[Eldron]

All that is then required is simply this, a Home School representative body (with suitable record of constituency) needs to engage the Gauteng organisers to allow the registration of all home-school children into one category/school. 

 

This will then allow the kids to participate as full participants and not as "ghost riders" and the Home School Body can then also award achievement incentives to their members.

 

To have individual parents approaching event organiser's on the day of the events to include little johnny in the event, or to attempt to blackball the title sponsor or even to engage the league organizers on an individual adhoc basis will not bear any results, and could get you labeled as a nuisance, rather than a concerned and involved roleplayer.

 

The problem is not with the sponsor, the league organiser, the rules or with the school sport system, but rather with the inability of the homeschooling system to look after the collective sport interests of home schooled children.  If you cannot bargain collectively, you have no bargaining power.

 

I want to agree with a "home school" team but practically and emotionally I can't.

 

Practically all the traditional schools are limited by similar school hours, terms etc - home schooling has much more latitude.

 

Emotionally I feel that home school parents shouldn't be allowed to have their cake and eat it - they chose to remove their children from the traditional school environment so how is it fair that they get to enjoy the perks of traditional schools. Of course that statement is open to the "but the chiiiildren" response but since I have no children I'm immune :-)

[Gen]

Here's a crazy question, what if having home schoolers is not good for the greater good of the league?

How would home schoolers on the podiums reflect on official schools? What if you have a podium one day of only home schoolers - after all they don't have the constraints of a formal school upbringing to cut into their training time. Hard to get in enough training when you are at school from 7am to 3pm? Would the schools support the league still if they aren't getting the results... are schools not largely judged on results?

 

How would all the schools feel when they start losing pupils to home schooling because it allows kids to focus on their cycling above their general education? Schools are businesses too. Home schooling is unfortunately in opposition to traditional schooling methods.

 

Are most of these events not on school grounds? Should the ethos of schools not be embraced on these grounds? The success of these events is down to the by-in of schools. It's been a long process to get this league to where it is today. The Gauteng league has exploded with the buy-in of local schools and if I am not mistaken, numbers wise it's almost bigger than all the rest of the country combined.

 

Are we more interested in keeping a few people who have made a very specific choice happy over the greater good of a series that does fantastic things? I am not sure sure, even as much as I can see how unfair it might feel for this young lady.

 

Sometimes you just can't make everyone happy - but if you want to participate in a school series where the ethos is focused on participation as well as competition, then best you be part of a school.

Do people really think home schooled kids sit around and do nothing all day.

 

You raised some interesting points.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Andrew Steer]

Do people really think home schooled kids sit around and do nothing all day.

 

You raised some interesting points.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Nobody said that, but they could obviously train from 5am til 9am and then start their school day...

[Kranswurm]

Further to your earlier response on the same page this is a perfectly articulated and reasonable statement. 

 

Hope it receives the appropriate acknowledgment above and beyond. 

It's just been schooled......

[Andrew Steer]

This entire argument is semantic at best and the question posed has actually been answered in a number of well articulated and objective posts here already. Or is the real resistance from the schools and some governing bodies themselves? 

 

There is no predetermined unfairness in allowing home schooled learners to take part. Otherwise do away with the whole podium nonsense anyway. The very nature of their participation contributes to the strength of the series as a whole.

Here's another question, what about the kids whose parents have deep pockets and are able to rock up on sub 10kg bikes costing 100k or more?

 

It's actually a very possible reality - kids being pulled from traditional schools to focus on sports is pretty common practice. 

 

Where does one draw the line? 

 

When does the perceived rights of a select few override the greater good?

[Swim.Bike.Run]

Nobody said that, but they could obviously train from 5am til 9am and then start their school day...

 

So is the fear that since homeschoolers have more time to train, they will have an unfair advantage?

Like the kids with the R100K bikes?

Or the women with too high testosterone counts?

[Danger Dassie]

Nobody said that, but they could obviously train from 5am til 9am and then start their school day...

There are a number of 'traditional' schooling parents that insist their kids on just as or more rigorous training programme too. And quality training is not necessarily time based either.

Objectively speaking this generic argument does not wash. 

[Paddaman]

I want to agree with a "home school" team but practically and emotionally I can't.

 

Practically all the traditional schools are limited by similar school hours, terms etc - home schooling has much more latitude.

 

Emotionally I feel that home school parents shouldn't be allowed to have their cake and eat it - they chose to remove their children from the traditional school environment so how is it fair that they get to enjoy the perks of traditional schools. Of course that statement is open to the "but the chiiiildren" response but since I have no children I'm immune :-)

The framework of the traditional school environment provides both the cyclist and cycling a number of understated advantages:

1.  The pride of the school tie.  Competing for one's school against the schools traditional rival (and winning) provides the child incentive and status among his peers (and could bring cycling in from being a marginalised sport vis a vis Rugby and cricket)

2.  Established organisation and command and control.  It is easier to mobilise enteries within a established structure.  From an organisers percepective he can plan on 20-30 kids from school x,y,z, and he can access these participants via the school communication structures.

3.  "Team" ethos.  Kids can train together and race together, allowing for tactics, peer pressure (in terms of training) and a sense of belong to a team for the kids.

4.  Acknowledgement of achievement.  The league provides an organised audit-able set of results from which colours and honours can be allocated.

 

Thus having a school league does allow both schools and organisers to leverage the advantages and structure of both parties to both's advantage.

 

I can understand why there is a reluctance to allow an outsider to eat of this fruit without having brought something to the table first.