Wahoo kicker first impression

[guylrc]

So after 5 years of trusty service I sold my Powerops pro beam trainer (on the hub within 48 hours!). I was looking for a direct drive (no back wheel), top of the range replacement to avoid the back wheel usage, improve accuracy and have a better experience. The three products I read up on where the Tacx Neo, Powerops and Wahoo Kickr and based on what I was reading the Tacx had the slightly better reviews but for training purposes all were excellent options. So I went for the Wahoo Kickr which was well priced compared to the Neo.

 

I have encountered problems from the outset but was impressed that the South African agent phoned me after I emailed a list of my concerns. Here in short was what I have encountered and the proposed solution from the agent:

 

1. My desktop computer's bluetooth does not pick up the Wahoo - he told me that most desktops don't have the right Bluetooth for Wahoo and when I get an Ant+ adapter it will work. My old Powerops came with the Ant+ the Wahoo is a R900 additional cost if you want to run it from the desktop

 

2. As I can not use my desktop computer until the Ant+ arrives I am using my Ipad with Bluetooth but the surges and inaccuracy are shocking. I use Zwift where I preprogram power rides and found that when I set anything above 200 watts I simply cannot pedal (FTP of 250) as it simply over does the resistance and ruins my ride or the power is simply not there but shows 170 watts even when free wheeling. I had used my P1 pedals to see the difference which was typically and consistently around 15% difference with the Powerops but a whopping 40% with the Wahoo (which promised +1% - 2% accuracy). I took the P1 pedals off to avoid interference but still found that the Wahoo was over or under powering my ride and the readings. He told me that Bluetooth can easily have interference and that with the newer Wahoo Kickr models like mine he has had a lot of complaints of inaccuracy with IPads. Something he has addressed with the manufacter

 

3. Sometimes the Ipad does not pickup the Wahoo at all. I learned this was interference as although my phone was not connected to the Wahoo it did have the Bluetooth on and when I turned it off the Ipad picked up the Wahoo. Very unfortunate as anyone in the family close by with their phone on can destroy your session not to mention if you use the device like I do at events (I have a plug in the car) to warm up and all the other riders with Bluetooth on their phones near by could potential destroy the warm up.

 

4. The cassette that comes with the Wahoo is not running well with my brand new Shimano 11 speed chain and is often making more noise than the device like it is not sync in gear that you can feel thru the pedals. Agent said this was not common. I guess the chain will be destroyed or will run into the cassette - I hate to think what will happen when i ride with chain on normal cassette.

 

5. The spin downs (calibration) don't seem to be consistent with the device sometimes taking minutes to slow down just a few KPH and other times rapidly. Agent response was that I must always use the Wahoo App to do all spin downs despite Zwift having their tailor made Wahoo spin down tool which he says does not work as well as the Wahoo App (then why have Wahoo worked with Zwift to put this in place?)

 

6. I also explained that I found the whole technical side not only disappointing thus far but also confusing with three different Wahoo Apps to use (Utility, Fitness and Studio). I am still confused by this (why not just have one app?) and don't know why we cannot just plug and play as per the marketing jive. Also the different modes are confusing and until now I still don't know how to find the different modes and when I asked does Zwift automatically select the mode he says Zwift has its own mode? I don't blame him but the product as he was doing his best to explain. He also sent me a mail where by it had different proposed solutions to how to over come technical difficulties but the only one that addressed the problem, directed me to the Zwift site for direction which did not help as Zwift is working but the machine is not reading the required output correctly in  bluetooth on an Ipad.

 

Work in motion - so I am not about to send the whole device back (agent says if it continues he will address USA for warranty claim which sounds long winded and I will fight for my money back first), as I am still waiting for the Ant+ device to arrive (2 weeks back order at Takealot). However if you are looking for a trouble free upgrade and use a desktop or Ipad to do work outs, Wahoo Kickr will do its name sake and kick your trouble free set intervals into turmoil. I will follow up with conclusion once Ant+ arrives but believe the Wahoo marketing of the shortfalls are not apparent and in my case misleading.

 

[Schnavel]

Should have stuck with Cycleops and bought a Hammer - it just works straight out of the box.

 

That being said, I'm surprised that you are having so many issues with the Kickr, it's a great piece of equipment. I would suggest contacting Christian here on Bikehub - he offers very good service and advice for all Wahoo equipment.

 

*Edit:

 

https://www.bikehub.co.za/user/63087-christian-van-zyl/

[JohanC]

How old is your iPad?

[Mongoose!]

Thanks for this. I have a Power beam pro that only give me joy. Thought to replace it with a direct drive trainer... but why?

Why spend money if you have something that still works flawlessly.

 

I do my indoor training in a room close to our main sleeping room. The other day I got up early and did a Zwift session while my wife was still asleep. Training with earphones, I always worry that the noise of the trainer will disturb her. After my session I went back to our room, and she asked : "is jy klaar geoefen? Ekt jou nie eers gehoor nie"...

Cyclops indoor trainer tyre...

[guylrc]

How old is your iPad?

Only a year old, it is the one just before they launched the latest one last year

[guylrc]

Thanks for this. I have a Power beam pro that only give me joy. Thought to replace it with a direct drive trainer... but why?

Why spend money if you have something that still works flawlessly.

I do my indoor training in a room close to our main sleeping room. The other day I got up early and did a Zwift session while my wife was still asleep. Training with earphones, I always worry that the noise of the trainer will disturb her. After my session I went back to our room, and she asked : "is jy klaar geoefen? Ekt jou nie eers gehoor nie"...

Cyclops indoor trainer tyre...

Yes why, this is my question to myself now, keep it

[guylrc]

Should have stuck with Cycleops and bought a Hammer - it just works straight out of the box.

 

That being said, I'm surprised that you are having so many issues with the Kickr, it's a great piece of equipment. I would suggest contacting Christian here on Bikehub - he offers very good service and advice for all Wahoo equipment.

 

*Edit:

 

https://www.bikehub.co.za/user/63087-christian-van-zyl/

Thanks will do if Ant+ does not make it work consistently

[Grey Hubs]

Moved from the Cycleops Powerbeam Pro to the Cycleops Hammer a few weeks ago.

 

WHEN there is no tyre slip, the Powerbeam is definitely quieter.

Nothing wrong with the Powerbeam, but I find the direct drive more responsive to resistance changes on Zwift.

 

I did have to fine tune the RD so the gear changes are aligned with the cassette on the Hammer. No different to a bike setup.

 

The bigger, heavier Hammer also feels a bit more stable when climbing out the saddle.

 

Never had Bluetooth issues with the Cycleops trainers and Ipad, HR monitor or cadence sensors...

 

If your trainer was a Cycleops, you could have taken your complete setup to Bicycle Power and they would have sorted you out. For me, that's what kept me with the brand!

[Christian van Zyl]

So after 5 years of trusty service I sold my Powerops pro beam trainer (on the hub within 48 hours!). I was looking for a direct drive (no back wheel), top of the range replacement to avoid the back wheel usage, improve accuracy and have a better experience. The three products I read up on where the Tacx Neo, Powerops and Wahoo Kickr and based on what I was reading the Tacx had the slightly better reviews but for training purposes all were excellent options. So I went for the Wahoo Kickr which was well priced compared to the Neo.

 

I have encountered problems from the outset but was impressed that the South African agent phoned me after I emailed a list of my concerns. Here in short was what I have encountered and the proposed solution from the agent:

 

1. My desktop computer's bluetooth does not pick up the Wahoo - he told me that most desktops don't have the right Bluetooth for Wahoo and when I get an Ant+ adapter it will work. My old Powerops came with the Ant+ the Wahoo is a R900 additional cost if you want to run it from the desktop

 

2. As I can not use my desktop computer until the Ant+ arrives I am using my Ipad with Bluetooth but the surges and inaccuracy are shocking. I use Zwift where I preprogram power rides and found that when I set anything above 200 watts I simply cannot pedal (FTP of 250) as it simply over does the resistance and ruins my ride or the power is simply not there but shows 170 watts even when free wheeling. I had used my P1 pedals to see the difference which was typically and consistently around 15% difference with the Powerops but a whopping 40% with the Wahoo (which promised +1% - 2% accuracy). I took the P1 pedals off to avoid interference but still found that the Wahoo was over or under powering my ride and the readings. He told me that Bluetooth can easily have interference and that with the newer Wahoo Kickr models like mine he has had a lot of complaints of inaccuracy with IPads. Something he has addressed with the manufacter

 

3. Sometimes the Ipad does not pickup the Wahoo at all. I learned this was interference as although my phone was not connected to the Wahoo it did have the Bluetooth on and when I turned it off the Ipad picked up the Wahoo. Very unfortunate as anyone in the family close by with their phone on can destroy your session not to mention if you use the device like I do at events (I have a plug in the car) to warm up and all the other riders with Bluetooth on their phones near by could potential destroy the warm up.

 

4. The cassette that comes with the Wahoo is not running well with my brand new Shimano 11 speed chain and is often making more noise than the device like it is not sync in gear that you can feel thru the pedals. Agent said this was not common. I guess the chain will be destroyed or will run into the cassette - I hate to think what will happen when i ride with chain on normal cassette.

 

5. The spin downs (calibration) don't seem to be consistent with the device sometimes taking minutes to slow down just a few KPH and other times rapidly. Agent response was that I must always use the Wahoo App to do all spin downs despite Zwift having their tailor made Wahoo spin down tool which he says does not work as well as the Wahoo App (then why have Wahoo worked with Zwift to put this in place?)

 

6. I also explained that I found the whole technical side not only disappointing thus far but also confusing with three different Wahoo Apps to use (Utility, Fitness and Studio). I am still confused by this (why not just have one app?) and don't know why we cannot just plug and play as per the marketing jive. Also the different modes are confusing and until now I still don't know how to find the different modes and when I asked does Zwift automatically select the mode he says Zwift has its own mode? I don't blame him but the product as he was doing his best to explain. He also sent me a mail where by it had different proposed solutions to how to over come technical difficulties but the only one that addressed the problem, directed me to the Zwift site for direction which did not help as Zwift is working but the machine is not reading the required output correctly in  bluetooth on an Ipad.

 

Work in motion - so I am not about to send the whole device back (agent says if it continues he will address USA for warranty claim which sounds long winded and I will fight for my money back first), as I am still waiting for the Ant+ device to arrive (2 weeks back order at Takealot). However if you are looking for a trouble free upgrade and use a desktop or Ipad to do work outs, Wahoo Kickr will do its name sake and kick your trouble free set intervals into turmoil. I will follow up with conclusion once Ant+ arrives but believe the Wahoo marketing of the shortfalls are not apparent and in my case misleading.

Hey there Guylrc, 

 

Thanks for the thorough writeup on your experience. Form a Wahoo standpoint our local team is very eager to ensue you have a positive experience with the product. 

 

Some initial comments:

 

* Bluetooth and ANT+ is not a product owned by any brand currently making indoor training products. Any issue you have on connectivity is not because of Wahoo but simply a function of ANT or Bluetooth protocols. 

I'm yet to see consistent connectivity on Bluetooth with PCs, for this reason all major software brand recommend ANT+ via a dongle. Again, this is brand agnostic, and any brand promising better connectivity is simply lying. 

 

* The same applies to connection to an iPad, iPhone or Tablet. 

 

* Trainer power vs Bike Power meter - I always urge users to read objective reviews and findings from professional journalists such as DC Rainmaker. Powertap, Vector, Stages... There are a million power meters out there, all of them great... Wahoo claims +-2% accuracy on a clinical level, the reason i.e Mike Postumus at Scient2Sport uses KICKR. But Wahoo does not offer +-2% accuracy to your chosen power meter. Should either device not be calibrated properly you might have a reasonable difference. There are simply too many variables.

 

a 40% Variable is a bit out of the ordinary. 

 

* Spindown form Wahoo might have the latest firmware upgrade included. This is why it is recommended to use this tool. It helps to keep you on the latest firmware at all times. Nothing wrong with the ZWIFT tool included. 

 

* Slight adjustment will be required with any IDT when you have a new cassette. Please keep an eye on this, but as this cassette is made to work 100% with Shimano you should not experience any issues. 

 

We have 5 Pain.Cave studios with number 6 opening in the Cape region next month, all running Wahoo KICKRS, where we can assist you with any product support. Our Cape Town sales manager is also very keen to assist when it suits you. 

 

PM me with more info and we will ensure we keep you a Wahooligan for life. 

 

All the best

 

Christian.

 

[lechatnoir]

I will follow up with conclusion once Ant+ arrives but believe the Wahoo marketing of the shortfalls are not apparent and in my case misleading.

 

If you're vaguely interested, PM me and I can lend you my Ant+ dongle for a few days to test with your desktop.

[Baaisikilist]

Why is your ant+ dongle that you were using with the Powerbeam (it’s Cycleops, not Powerops fyi) not working with the Kickr...? I had a Powerbeam and I have a Hammer. The Powerbeam suffered a terminal power surge, and insurance bought me a lovely new Kickr 3. I use the same Ant+ dongle that I used with the ‘beam, and it transmits perfectly. The missus uses the Hammer and I use the Kickr. I’ve obviously ridden them back to back and must say I prefer the Kickr to the Hammer. The Kickr is certainly quieter. I recommend you “tune” your derailleur and lube your chain so that it runs smoother and with less noise. Nothing wrong with the SRAM cassette the Wahoo comes with (you need to buy a cassette for the Hammer, and a skewer too, both included with the Kickr, for the same price as a Hammer) Wahoo uses Bluetooth Smart, so if your laptop or desktop doesn’t have Bluetooth Smart, it won’t work. Your problems should definitely be solved with the ant+ dongle. Don’t worry about the other 2 wahoo apps, just use the Wahoo Fitness one. The app is specifically designed to be used with Wahoo’s products, so just use the wahoo spindown as he says. I only use the Rouvy/Cycleops software when I’m calibrating/doing a spindown on the Hammer. I won’t spin the Hammer down on the Kickr software and vice versa. Forget about the Zwift spindown. Use the correct tool for the job if you have it. Wahoo has a normal spindown, and then a factory spindown with a slightly longer method/protocol. The factory one is to be used the 1st time you take it out of the box. Use the normal one once every second week or so. And once a month run a factory one. It’s always a good thing to do if you want to maintain consistent calibration and thus data. I have a friend with a Kickr Snap 2 and she was calibrating it on Rouvy. She couldn’t ride 180 watts without the system almost completely locking up. I ran an advanced spindown on the Wahoo app, and Robert’s your father’s brother, problem solved.

 

The agents (Sean from Ikhambi) for Wahoo are great. I had a small issue of a sensor sticker inside my flywheel lifting and catching on something, making a ticking sound. He offered to immediately warranty the entire unit. I said I had an idea on how to fix the issue without all that hassle, and the agent emailed me and checked up with me that I had sorted it myself as I had insisted on doing, or if I do want to send it back. I had it sorted and he told me that he’s made a note of my problem and should it ever reoccur, he’ll sort it out without question.

 

That said, I’ve bought and owned many Cycleops products (powermeters on 4 bikes) and Dave from BPT is always super helpful whenever any type of issue has arisen.

[Harryn]

I find this interesting, and would like to weigh in this debate.

 

I have the poor man’s Kikr, aka the snap, the fist gen.

 

I am surprised to hear that you are having these multiple connectivity issues, as I would assumed that Wahoo would have improved not degenerated product functionality with higher models and newer iterations.

 

I have never had any issues with either Ant+ or bluetooth smart, and these are the simultaneous connections that are made when my ass hits the saddle.

 

1. My Snap connects via bluetooth to my Ipad on which I run Zwift;

 

2. My Snap simultaneously connects via ant +to both my Garmin Edge, and my Garmin Fenix 3 (God forbid I should lose out on Vitality smoothie points),

 

3. My Wahoo Tikr simultaneously send my hr to my Ipad via blutooth, and via ant + to both Garmin devices.

 

4. My speed and cadence sensor (Garmin) connect via ant+ to both Garmin devices.

 

5. My Iphone pumps music to my bluetooth speaker:

 

6 another Iphone connects to Dischord, and is sometimes connected to my bluetooth headset

 

7. Whilst al this is going on, my wife and daughter and her bf are merrily streaming, Facebooking , whatsapping on my wifi to their hearts content, not giving one single ****about poor suffering me sweating like a pig, trying to stay with some nondescript avatar belonging to a possible person in Iceland .

 

The bottom line is that I have enough wireless connections to and around my idt to irradiate my balls 1000 fold, and i have only very rarely dropped a bluetooth connection. It just works.

 

I can imagine your frustration, but from my own personal experience, I just cannot understand it. Why don’t you get them to give you another unit to try out?

[guylrc]

Why is your ant+ dongle that you were using with the Powerbeam (it’s Cycleops, not Powerops fyi) not working with the Kickr...? I had a Powerbeam and I have a Hammer. The Powerbeam suffered a terminal power surge, and insurance bought me a lovely new Kickr 3. I use the same Ant+ dongle that I used with the ‘beam, and it transmits perfectly. The missus uses the Hammer and I use the Kickr. I’ve obviously ridden them back to back and must say I prefer the Kickr to the Hammer. The Kickr is certainly quieter. I recommend you “tune” your derailleur and lube your chain so that it runs smoother and with less noise. Nothing wrong with the SRAM cassette the Wahoo comes with (you need to buy a cassette for the Hammer, and a skewer too, both included with the Kickr, for the same price as a Hammer) Wahoo uses Bluetooth Smart, so if your laptop or desktop doesn’t have Bluetooth Smart, it won’t work. Your problems should definitely be solved with the ant+ dongle. Don’t worry about the other 2 wahoo apps, just use the Wahoo Fitness one. The app is specifically designed to be used with Wahoo’s products, so just use the wahoo spindown as he says. I only use the Rouvy/Cycleops software when I’m calibrating/doing a spindown on the Hammer. I won’t spin the Hammer down on the Kickr software and vice versa. Forget about the Zwift spindown. Use the correct tool for the job if you have it. Wahoo has a normal spindown, and then a factory spindown with a slightly longer method/protocol. The factory one is to be used the 1st time you take it out of the box. Use the normal one once every second week or so. And once a month run a factory one. It’s always a good thing to do if you want to maintain consistent calibration and thus data. I have a friend with a Kickr Snap 2 and she was calibrating it on Rouvy. She couldn’t ride 180 watts without the system almost completely locking up. I ran an advanced spindown on the Wahoo app, and Robert’s your father’s brother, problem solved.

The agents (Sean from Ikhambi) for Wahoo are great. I had a small issue of a sensor sticker inside my flywheel lifting and catching on something, making a ticking sound. He offered to immediately warranty the entire unit. I said I had an idea on how to fix the issue without all that hassle, and the agent emailed me and checked up with me that I had sorted it myself as I had insisted on doing, or if I do want to send it back. I had it sorted and he told me that he’s made a note of my problem and should it ever reoccur, he’ll sort it out without question.

That said, I’ve bought and owned many Cycleops products (powermeters on 4 bikes) and Dave from BPT is always super helpful whenever any type of issue has arisen.

Yes I agree the fact that i was called by Wahoo so shortly after my email was impressive as was the old support for the Pro Beam (I obviously sold the ANT USB with the old unit hence why I don’t have anymore) Cannot read entire mail just yet but clearly based on feedback from Wahoo, Bluetooth should basically not be used with the trainer, then why have it and why not sell unit with Ant. That said will try to get Ant ASAP

[guylrc]

Thanks for feedback and glad Bluetooth works with snap, think the IPad and Kickr 3 is the issue but Ant should solve. Wanted to share experience so anyone wanting to have smooth transition using Bluetooth or Desktop is warned

 

I find this interesting, and would like to weigh in this debate.

I have the poor man’s Kikr, aka the snap, the fist gen.

I am surprised to hear that you are having these multiple connectivity issues, as I would assumed that Wahoo would have improved not degenerated product functionality with higher models and newer iterations.

I have never had any issues with either Ant+ or bluetooth smart, and these are the simultaneous connections that are made when my ass hits the saddle.

1. My Snap connects via bluetooth to my Ipad on which I run Zwift;

2. My Snap simultaneously connects via ant +to both my Garmin Edge, and my Garmin Fenix 3 (God forbid I should lose out on Vitality smoothie points),

3. My Wahoo Tikr simultaneously send my hr to my Ipad via blutooth, and via ant + to both Garmin devices.

4. My speed and cadence sensor (Garmin) connect via ant+ to both Garmin devices.

5. My Iphone pumps music to my bluetooth speaker:

6 another Iphone connects to Dischord, and is sometimes connected to my bluetooth headset

7. Whilst al this is going on, my wife and daughter and her bf are merrily streaming, Facebooking , whatsapping on my wifi to their hearts content, not giving one single ****about poor suffering me sweating like a pig, trying to stay with some nondescript avatar belonging to a possible person in Iceland .

The bottom line is that I have enough wireless connections to and around my idt to irradiate my balls 1000 fold, and i have only very rarely dropped a bluetooth connection. It just works.

I can imagine your frustration, but from my own personal experience, I just cannot understand it. Why don’t you get them to give you another unit to try out?

[guylrc]

Thanks Christian for the feedback,

 

If the Bluetooth is so unreliable then why not sell units with Ant to prevent the frustration I am having. I bought the unit on the assumption Bluetooth would work and I would have a seemless transfer from my old Probeam.

 

I understand that power units wont be all the same and believe the inaccuracy is due to the Bluetooth issue. I truelly hope th 2% will be the case as this is one of the main reasons of upgrading. Consistency is more important than accuracy but it would be good to have a similar reading on the road as indoors.

 

“All major software brands recommend ANT+” can you show me where Wahoo recommend this on the Wahoo website and on the box I bought the unit in? I missed this key point and if there I don’t think it is clear enough

 

That said I believe I am unlucky as the great reviews on the product were a key selling point and it may be my combination of software and hardware, however I want others to know so they are prewarned if their desired configuration is the same as mine.

 

Takealot delayed the ANT+ unit till next week Friday (another frustration that if I had known I would have ordered at the same time) so I may see if I can get a unit before then and cancel the TAKEALOT order.

 

 

 

 

Hey there Guylrc, 

Thanks for the thorough writeup on your experience. Form a Wahoo standpoint our local team is very eager to ensue you have a positive experience with the product. 

Some initial comments:

* Bluetooth and ANT+ is not a product owned by any brand currently making indoor training products. Any issue you have on connectivity is not because of Wahoo but simply a function of ANT or Bluetooth protocols. 

I'm yet to see consistent connectivity on Bluetooth with PCs, for this reason all major software brand recommend ANT+ via a dongle. Again, this is brand agnostic, and any brand promising better connectivity is simply lying. 

* The same applies to connection to an iPad, iPhone or Tablet. 

* Trainer power vs Bike Power meter - I always urge users to read objective reviews and findings from professional journalists such as DC Rainmaker. Powertap, Vector, Stages... There are a million power meters out there, all of them great... Wahoo claims +-2% accuracy on a clinical level, the reason i.e Mike Postumus at Scient2Sport uses KICKR. But Wahoo does not offer +-2% accuracy to your chosen power meter. Should either device not be calibrated properly you might have a reasonable difference. There are simply too many variables.

a 40% Variable is a bit out of the ordinary. 

* Spindown form Wahoo might have the latest firmware upgrade included. This is why it is recommended to use this tool. It helps to keep you on the latest firmware at all times. Nothing wrong with the ZWIFT tool included. 

* Slight adjustment will be required with any IDT when you have a new cassette. Please keep an eye on this, but as this cassette is made to work 100% with Shimano you should not experience any issues. 

We have 5 Pain.Cave studios with number 6 opening in the Cape region next month, all running Wahoo KICKRS, where we can assist you with any product support. Our Cape Town sales manager is also very keen to assist when it suits you. 

PM me with more info and we will ensure we keep you a Wahooligan for life. 

All the best

Christian.

 

[Nick]

Thanks for feedback and glad Bluetooth works with snap, think the IPad and Kickr 3 is the issue but Ant should solve. Wanted to share experience so anyone wanting to have smooth transition using Bluetooth or Desktop is warned

 

 

I can second Harryn's experience.

 

Bluetooth works flawlessly with my Kickr 2 (plus Bluetooth heart rate and cadence monitors) on Zwift using a late 2012 MacBook Pro. At the same time, my Garmin head unit is receiving ANT+ signals from the Kickr and sensors.

 

I also tried on a much older MacBook in the house which doesn't support the Kickr's Bluetooth, here Zwift can struggle to transmit ANT+ consistently for smooth power transitions, in that case, its an under-specced computer struggling to keep pace. I do not see this being an issue with your newer model iPad though.

 

All-in-all, I've had a good experience with my Kickr. Other than actually kickring a support arm by walking into it yesterday 

 

That said, I have had other Bluetooth devices away from cycling that have been a pain in the butt to get working well.

 

I hope you get your problems sorted swiftly.