South Africa - The Land of Inequality

[Patchelicious]

My eldest son who is now first year student at CPUT has already decided that he is going overseas as soon as possible, and that he is not gonna stay here to beg for a job with AA and BBEEE policies still in place 25 years after apartheid supposedly ended.

Having met your son, his talents will be a loss to the SA economy.

[GrahamS2]

Many do. My folks did, my other set of parents still do. I do. Come to think of it I am actually paying, directly , post tax income for 3 children’s schooling (not mine).

Most others would argue that they pay their taxes which should have been used correctly. I said it on this or another thread, that if or taxes were used correctly on education from 94, the education problem would be much smaller today.

And the ANC would not have remained in power if they had ramped up education spend. They made a clear decision not to spend on educating the voters back then, and SA will feel the effects of that for centuries. But the ANC will remain in power because of it...

[Eldron]

And the ANC would not have remained in power if they had ramped up education spend. They made a clear decision not to spend on educating the voters back then, and SA will feel the effects of that for centuries. But the ANC will remain in power because of it...

Be an anti propoganda educator :-)

 

When I was volunteering at a shelter they asked me to develop/teach a basic life skills programme.

 

I made sure to explain the basics around how tax works. Too many poor people thought that the ANC really did buy everyhing with ANC money. Many eyes were opened when I tokd them it was all our money and that the government just allocated it.

 

It is in our interests to push back against the ANC policy of keeping people uneducated. Throwing our hands up and moaning to each other passively helps the ANC.

[IceCreamMan]

Everyone seems to believe education is the answer...

 

I tend to disagree.... I been to some shitholes where ppl were educated. Some not even far from ZA.

 

I have friends across the racial divide, some highly educated professionals who support Malema to the hilt. As an example. We discuss these things a lot.

 

Don’t over estimate the factor of education to resolve this mess.

Edited May 8, 2019 by IceCreamMan

[shaper]

I never said donating was the answer. I said education was the answer. That and self enabling progranmes. I've been a Qhubeka supporter for years. I figure that is the right way to help people help themselvrs.

And you think education is the answer, when many aid agencies the likes of USAID, DIFID, UN and others pump millions of foreign money yearly into education ... and not to put too fine a pointer on in.... over the last how many years?? what uplifting has it achieved in helping people help themselves? 

[Stretch]

And you think education is the answer, when many aid agencies the likes of USAID, DIFID, UN and others pump millions of foreign money yearly into education ... and not to put too fine a pointer on in.... over the last how many years?? what uplifting has it achieved in helping people help themselves?

Money coming in does not translate into money being spent at the grass roots level. We were involved in a rural primary school in kzn and despite a very active and committed principal and the local community social worker also being involved the school still lacked so much. Basics like waterborne sanitation, books and even a tree or two in the school grounds were non existent. Money like that gets squandered by politicians. Individuals like us can do things that really matter. Just before we left we handed over to a local business that we knew and they have not planted 6 trees at the school. As small and ridiculous as that is.. It makes s massive difference for the kids going to school.

 

It's not a lot that has to be spent at schools... But it needs to be somewhere that kids want to go to

[DJR]

Everyone seems to believe education is the answer...

 

I tend to disagree.... I been to some shitholes where ppl were educated. Some not even far from ZA.

 

I have friends across the racial divide, some highly educated professionals who support Malema to the hilt. As an example. We discuss these things a lot.

 

Don’t over estimate the factor of education to resolve this mess.

I agree that some educated people can be extremely stupid, idiotic in fact, and malignant as all hell........look at the BLF leader......has a Masters degree from Wits!

 

BUT

 

On a large population wide scale, nothing will beat education when it comes to uplifting people. I am not just referring to pure academic education, but practical skills also. There simply is no alternative because ignorance is MUCH worse! It leaves too large a part of the population gullible and easy to manipulate by unscrupulous charismatic individuals. It is much more difficult to bull**** savvy educated people. Our own SA history is a case study for this. (Not just our recent history)

[DJR]

And the ANC would not have remained in power if they had ramped up education spend. They made a clear decision not to spend on educating the voters back then, and SA will feel the effects of that for centuries. But the ANC will remain in power because of it...

More than enough money was spent on (education), but it was spent extremely unwisely and therefore the outcome is so poor. Money spent on several fancy new inappropriate curricula while the basics like reading and maths were neglected in primary school, is money down the drain.  No use giving a Grade 10 a laptop if he never learnt to read in Grade 1. A further major stumbling block in overhauling the system is the political power of the main teachers union, who really is wagging the dog, and who makes it impossible to get rid of bad teachers and attract good ones. A return to basics is what is needed, not just more money thrown at the problem. 

 

Where there was under spending, is at University level, where subsidies lagged well behind inflation......now recently fixed at the expense of primary education......also called putting the cart before the horse! 

[Stretch]

More than enough money was spent on (education), but it was spent extremely unwisely and therefore the outcome is so poor. Money spent on several fancy new inappropriate curricula while the basics like reading and maths were neglected in primary school, is money down the drain. No use giving a Grade 10 a laptop if he never learnt to read in Grade 1. A further major stumbling block in overhauling the system is the political power of the main teachers union, who really is wagging the dog, and who makes it impossible to get rid of bad teachers and attract good ones. A return to basics is what is needed, not just more money thrown at the problem.

 

Where there was under spending, is at University level, where subsidies lagged well behind inflation......now recently fixed at the expense of primary education......also called putting the cart before the horse!

Let's not even start discussing the dismal failure that was outcomes based education. What a colossal failure

[DJR]

Let's not even start discussing the dismal failure that was outcomes based education. What a colossal failure

Was alluding to that, but too massive a subject.

 

In short, it worked extremely well in schools with passionate well qualified teachers and small classes, perhaps 5% ? of our schools. Those (few) fortunate kids are now doing extremely well in tertiary education and the workplace because of how they think and learn. 

 

But it failed dismally everywhere else because it is inappropriate for poorly qualified teachers with a bad work ethic, teaching too large a class of children without help from capable parents. It is not possible to go back and fix that.

[Stretch]

Was alluding to that, but too massive a subject.

 

In short, it worked extremely well in schools with passionate well qualified teachers and small classes, perhaps 5% ? of our schools. Those (few) fortunate kids are now doing extremely well in tertiary education and the workplace because of how they think and learn.

 

But it failed dismally everywhere else because it is inappropriate for poorly qualified teachers with a bad work ethic, teaching too large a class of children without help from capable parents. It is not possible to go back and fix that.

Nicely put.

 

My girls went through it in primary school and they dropped it around the time my daughter went into high school. Both their primary education is outcomes based. I would say they were in that lucky 5% thanks to private education which near bankrupted me!

[Eldron]

And you think education is the answer, when many aid agencies the likes of USAID, DIFID, UN and others pump millions of foreign money yearly into education ... and not to put too fine a pointer on in.... over the last how many years?? what uplifting has it achieved in helping people help themselves?

Like the other said. Money and education are different things.

[porqui]

First thing they did was to close all teacher training colleges.

Then they closed all the so called "trade" schools and many of the colleges.

If you were a white teacher or lecturer you got a package not utilized.

 

Yes I use the "they" word.

There was an outcry from the education world but to no avail.

 

Now our kids yes our kids can't read or add (nevermind math)

Our kids are our future.

Edited May 8, 2019 by porqui

[DJR]

First thing they did was to close all teacher training colleges........................

In the name of transformation, in a lot of instances, the baby was thrown out with the bath water. 

 

The idea, in theory, for a 1st world country, to upgrade teachers colleges to the university level, is a great one, but the model was inappropriate for our situation in SA at the time.

 

Closing many small teachers training colleges that produced well trained practically orientated teachers and hoping for the newly formed Universities of Technology and established "academic" universities to take up the slack was just a pipe dream, especially without a direct drive to make the teaching profession more attractive through better working conditions, opportunities and especially state bursaries. The nett effect is that fewer teachers were trained and although they have good academic degrees, they lacked the practical training the old colleges offered immediately at graduation. That was only gained through on-the-job experience, but an overpopulated classroom in an already dysfunctional school, with no good teachers to serve as role models, is not the place for a young teacher to learn good habits!

[Mojoman]

First thing they did was to close all teacher training colleges.

Then they closed all the so called "trade" schools and many of the colleges.

If you were a white teacher or lecturer you got a package not utilized.

 

Yes I use the "they" word.

There was an outcry from the education world but to no avail.

 

Now our kids yes our kids can't read or add (nevermind math)

Our kids are our future.

We have a nice little technical college in town here.....great stuff....you can learn to be a hairdresser or do a few tourism courses and.......and thats it!

 

No technical courses here.....you have to go to Krugersdorp or Randfontein to do that....but they bleat about the lack of artisans here.....bad luck for the poor sod who barely has money to get through college....now you need to get taxi money as well!

 

There was also an 'agricultural' section to it....needless to say its a total ruin....nothing is growing, most of the infrastructure is gone...tunnels have been savaged by the locals....weather and time....

 

Some years back those useless things at Mogale City bought a fully functional flower farm just outside of Magalies to create an agricultural college.....again....its a derelict piece of property...from an international flower exporting business to sweet FA...

 

Properly klever they is....viva edukation viva....

Edited May 8, 2019 by Mojoman

[DJR]

.......Then they closed all the so called "trade" schools and many of the colleges..........

This was a terrible miscalculation and we will pay the price for it for another 50 years, if not longer.

 

Teaching practical skills like woodwork and metalwork in school was stopped altogether, and nobody wondered why any kid would out of the blue suddenly WANT to go and learn it AFTER school! Even if he or she WANTED to.

 

The technical colleges and the apprentice system was dismantled and basically it was HOPED that private companies would train electricians, plumbers, mechanics and so on......it never materialized. Governments own SETAS never functioned.

 

The qualified artisan force got smaller and is ageing rapidly. Their work is taken over by unqualified and often unskilled people, hopefully, but often not, working under supervision of someone properly qualified.

 

We'll see the fruits of that for many years in generators, transformers, water purification and sewerage plants breaking down! Oh, and more car accidents because of faulty brakes.........