maidenmole Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 Well... not all events are CSA sanctioned, but all events fall under the Sport & Rec Act., and must comply with the Act. It is managed by the local SAPS via the provincial commissioner. I know of many event that do not go through the months of work involved in this; but it is ultimately illegal to host an event without it...There are too many "shoulds" in this legal compliance game for my liking. But again, when do we ever hear from an organiser that an event is compliant and that they're committed to our safety (beyond the inherent risks of the event of course). Could be as simple as having a short statement on a website. Same statement on the indemnity form, that says we're committed to etc etc.
seven Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 There are too many "shoulds" in this legal compliance game for my liking. But again, when do we ever hear from an organiser that an event is compliant and that they're committed to our safety (beyond the inherent risks of the event of course). Could be as simple as having a short statement on a website. Same statement on the indemnity form, that says we're committed to etc etc. I agree. Let met put it this way... Not complying is illegal, so one would assume that all events comply with the law. If they don't then those indemnity forms are not worth the paper they are printed on.
maidenmole Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 I agree. Let met put it this way... Not complying is illegal, so one would assume that all events comply with the law. If they don't then those indemnity forms are not worth the paper they are printed on.So, in your esteemed opinion, my learned colleague ... we should sign them as they are if we want to participate?
mecheng89 Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 Different question - what do YOU want from the organizers ? Why do you have an issue with signing the indemnity ? A nice medalA free shirt that's not ***A number I can print from homeCompetent on the road and on the motorbike marshals
mecheng89 Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 Perhaps Frosty should weigh into this debate. Or perhaps he's formulating his reply as we speak...
seven Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 So, in your esteemed opinion, my learned colleague ... we should sign them as they are if we want to participate?I doubt that I am either esteemed or learned... Hmmm... tough one. To answer you indirectly, I have opted to rather ship events because I was not comfortable with some of the stuff in their rules/indemnity, or did not like their lack of medical support for the event... So, my answer is probably no... Edit: Perhaps one should request that the orgainisers divulge more info regarding their ocmpliance with the relevant Acts, or perhaps their risk cetificates from SAPS should be displayed on event websites or something...???
maidenmole Posted July 30, 2018 Author Posted July 30, 2018 [quote: Perhaps one should request that the orgainisers divulge more info regarding their ocmpliance with the relevant Acts, or perhaps their risk cetificates from SAPS should be displayed on event websites or something...??? Good idea. Gonna pop an email off right now to next event organisers. Will see if they respond. Would be cool if enough people asked so that organisers share this stuff willingly on websites.
Pieter-za Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 Sure they can be held for gross negligence in a court given you're up for the fight and have the cash BUT what if you're effing dead because of the gross negligence in the first place?You can't sign away eg your spouse's rights. If you are effing dead the indemnity suddenly means a lot less. (According to my understanding) In my other hobby liabilities can be huge and all possible (?) risks are required to be communicated beforehand. (Preferably the participant should sign that it was indeed done.)
Pitpaplo Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 From what I understand you can still sue if something serious does go sideways.The indemnities are there to keep most people from taking action against the organisers.
dirtchick Posted July 30, 2018 Posted July 30, 2018 Do a commissaires course and this thread would not exist because you would have all the answers you seek. It's a seriously good idea to do some reading about the rules and regulations that govern a sport you are participating in
Patensie Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I'm sure glad I'm not an event organiser with everybody looking for ways to take legal action against me. Talking about smaller events:Just not worth the trouble for the peanuts earned in the smaller events. A lot of effort for little monetary reward - I know, 'cause I helped to organise one in the past. We managed to break even, but if any one of us charged for the time put in, it would be a dead loss. What killed it was the insurance (and the legal fees to draw up said indemnity). Volunteers don't have time to draw up policies and procedures to satisfy the Mervin Kings on this thread. Your R500 entry fee doesn't cover cost. Be glad their is a semblance of an event, partake and make the best of it. NOBODY is out to get you hurt, but they also can't control everything, especially your skills level while partaking in a risky activity. Isn't that exactly the point of these indemnities? The organisers indemnify themselves from reasonable risks. Surely you can't expect to hold the organisers accountable if some pillock brings down half the peleton, or if you bomb your way down a hill straight into a tree. There are inherent risks associated with our sport. However, they can be held accountable for gross negligence, and the courts would definitely apply the reasonable man test to the situation in question should it come to that.That's what I said...
rudi-h Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 it all depends on what you expect from a race though... to me a race is a route along with temporary permission to use that route. nothing more. If i go on a training ride by myself in the bush, I don't expect medical assistance etc., so why would I demand medical assistance when I'm riding someone else's route? Sure I get that accidents happen to most of us say 1 in 500 rides, therefore you are almost guaranteed to have a crash or an accident if you have 500 or more participants in one event. In my view it would be totally irresponsible to organize a large event and not have any medics at a race and that's why the organizers bring them in. But be realistic, I would also not put my head on a block if I were a race organizer to ensure there is immediate medical assistance for every single rider. What if 5 guys crash at the same time at the same spot? Would you like to guarantee that there will be adequate emergency transport to hospitals in such a case? It's all risk management. If you want more medics and less disclaimers, the price will go up, up and up!
bertusras Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 That's what I said... I was trying to reinforce your point for the OP.
Shebeen Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 *Does anyone know of any legal action taken against a MTB or Road race organiser due to negligence? *Has a race indemnity been tested in court? *has the Safety at Sports and Recreation Act been 'tested' similarly? "event - means sporting, entertainment, recreational, religious, cultural, exhibitional, organisational or similar activities hosted at a stadium, venue or along a route or within their respective precincts" My initial reading on this 7 years ago was that this was far too broad, and if applied to the letter would include everything from the Cape Epic, the FIFA world Cup down to a school u9 soccer game to a church procession to everyything a scout troop does to a 6 year old's treasure hunt. Where does the line in the sand lie as to where you do this, or just ignore it?
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