Has the MTB Stage Racing bubble finally burst?

[Wannabe]

My feeling about races and entry fees:

 

Local races, I don't care about the Hospitality aspect and other things surrounding it. If I deem the entry fee to be reasonable (for me) and I want to ride in a new area, I will enter it, go to the venue, do the race, and go home. I do not make use of the festivities before and after, so the availability of it or not, does not phase me.

I mostly do not even use the Water Tables. I do not worry about goody bags, as it's mostly junk I not want or need. I also do not take a Medal at the finish, as it just ends up in a box in my garage, unless it is a milestone race, like a 21st Argus, etc.

 

There are very few local races that meets this criteria of mine, therefore I do not enter many now, as opposed to a few years back when I used to enter races almost every weekend. The biggest reason for me is the Entry Cost, it got out of hand.

 

Stage races: Although quite expensive, I am saving like crazy to be able to do the J2C again. Either in 2019 or 2020, it does not matter. That is so far the bench mark of any and all races I have done. As said before, the Rider is treated like royalty and the Route is King.

The other "premium" stage race I did, felt like a B rated movie in comparison. Therefore I am willing to sacrifice a few local races, in order to be able to do my "bucket list" event again.

[Goodbadugly]

Perceptions.

My kids race in the Spur mtb school series.

And some of the local races. I see the same old faces every year. Maybe one or two new ones.

The last 4 times I was in the local bike shop, I saw one new face. A dad looking for a bike for his kid too ride in the Spur series. I also overheard the conversation between the salesman and the dad. Something like "ek kan 'n farking kar vir daai prys koop. Kom ons f.kk.f" And then boetie and mamma followed dad out of the shop. 

One way too demotivate new people.

Let's face it. The bike industry bled the market. Once you peeve people off, they are more resilient.

 

I looked over the faces doing the Sani2c this year. Mostly middle aged people. Vets and masters.

 

A few weeks ago I asked the salesman how many of the new SC blurs have been sold. How long the waiting list is. Only one sold. 

 

What do I think?

Hmmm.

[AdamA]

Races events are now a money spinner for the event organizers. I was at the night ride on Saturday. Paid my R 180 rand there was a tiny crappy Water point with Water, in fact I glanced at it and rode on.

A blow up finishing line and received a R10 medal. 600 or so riders. Nothing wrong with the Profits just greedy organizaers. Same for most races now riders not getting money’s worth. Part of the new trial had stumps every where - some would say this is MTBing , OTHERS would say doof..

 

Oh by the way the goody bag for the first 100 entry’s was a cheap crappy empty nylon bag cost about R15.. all races are like this these days - sponsors pay a lot of money , riders are supposed to get decent goodie bags Ect but the events organizers take the money and run. ppppppoooooop is coming soon.

 

I did the same race and had a very different experience... I thought it was great. even stopped to help 2 (separate) guys fix their chains.

[The Ouzo]

Perceptions.

My kids race in the Spur mtb school series.

And some of the local races. I see the same old faces every year. Maybe one or two new ones.

The last 4 times I was in the local bike shop, I saw one new face. A dad looking for a bike for his kid too ride in the Spur series. I also overheard the conversation between the salesman and the dad. Something like "ek kan 'n farking kar vir daai prys koop. Kom ons f.kk.f" And then boetie and mamma followed dad out of the shop. 

One way too demotivate new people.

Let's face it. The bike industry bled the market. Once you peeve people off, they are more resilient.

 

I looked over the faces doing the Sani2c this year. Mostly middle aged people. Vets and masters.

 

A few weeks ago I asked the salesman how many of the new SC blurs have been sold. How long the waiting list is. Only one sold. 

 

What do I think?

Hmmm.

in terms of bike prices I'd like to think its just peoples general perception of the cost of things.

 

I see it often in my line of work, people want the latest and best but expect it to cost the price of an entry level version of the product from 30 years ago.

[The expat cyclist]

Also don't think the bubble has burst...

It just feels like the focus is shifting from "I have done this" to "Can I do this?"

 

So from stage races to ultra marathons: It feels like ultra events (36one, TB etc.) are now more popular than stage races.

[Boerklong]

It's getting expensive.

A new event that started last year charges R550 for 50 miler and R650 for 100 miler.

90% of this race you are riding public roads.

Thats more expensive than CTCT and K2C.

[Thor Buttox]

It is interesting when perspective changes. I still think R500 is expensive when you have tons of races, but over here, with very few races I would pay $60 for a decent race with pleasure.

[Goodbadugly]

in terms of bike prices I'd like to think its just peoples general perception of the cost of things.

 

I see it often in my line of work, people want the latest and best but expect it to cost the price of an entry level version of the product from 30 years ago.

Teacher in RSA salaries: R10-R18k/month

Secretary: R10-R16k/month

Nurses: R12-R22k/month

Sergeant: R11k

 

My perception then that the above parents will not be able to afford races for their kids. And the future of ANY sport can be calculated in the amount of kids doing the sport.

 

Doing a local race costs me R800 for self and two kids. 

[Breezer]

It's getting expensive.

A new event that started last year charges R550 for 50 miler and R650 for 100 miler.

90% of this race you are riding public roads.

Thats more expensive than CTCT and K2C.

I want to do that race, but was also thinking that 650 is a bid steep. I also have to travel 900km to get there.

[The Ouzo]

Teacher in RSA salaries: R10-R18k/month

Secretary: R10-R16k/month

Nurses: R12-R22k/month

Sergeant: R11k

 

My perception then that the above parents will not be able to afford races for their kids. And the future of ANY sport can be calculated in the amount of kids doing the sport.

 

Doing a local race costs me R800 for self and two kids. 

100% agreed with you.

 

I dont know what races cost to hold, but taking information from others on this forum there are a number of costs one needs to consider

road closures

medical teams

insurances

staff 

etc.

Now we all want to ride the race, we all want it as cheap as possible, but when there is no road closure we complain, some one gets hurt in a crash and we will complain about the medics. etc.

The fewer people doing the ride the more costs each riders has to carry.

 

I'm not saying we are not being ripped off and cheaper races will definitely get more people entering.

[Underachiever]

in terms of bike prices I'd like to think its just peoples general perception of the cost of things.

 

I see it often in my line of work, people want the latest and best but expect it to cost the price of an entry level version of the product from 30 years ago.

True, but to charge me over R50k for a carbon frame with a nice paint job is crazy.  I like watches - to ask more than $100k for a R Mille is just as crazy, but people buy them.  Methinks the group of people that can afford all top end stuff is getting a lot smaller.

 

A few years ago I could easily buy a Landy Discovery, and I did, now not willing to pay R1mm for a new one.  Value proposition is gone.

[The Ouzo]

True, but to charge me over R50k for a carbon frame with a nice paint job is crazy.  I like watches - to ask more than $100k for a R Mille is just as crazy, but people buy them.  Methinks the group of people that can afford all top end stuff is getting a lot smaller.

 

A few years ago I could easily buy a Landy Discovery, and I did, now not willing to pay R1mm for a new one.  Value proposition is gone.

That carbon frame might cost 1k to manufacture in terms of material and labour, but how much R&D has gone into making sure it has the required robustness in the right places with just the right amount of flexibility. All this before production even gets planned.

Then there is the warranty and backup of the manufacturer should things go wrong. They will need to have the required spares available and technical knowledge employed so that they can back up their warranty.

The manufacturer needs to make a profit to keep its doors open and keep producing new products.

The distributor needs to make a profit to keep its doors open and be able to buy enough stock to give him some buying power with the manufacturer.

The retailer needs to make profit to keeps its doors open and service its customer base that buys the bike from him.

And in between is SARS wanting their pound of flesh.

 

The same can be said about cars. That Discovery you bought a few years ago, whilst very capable, is probably not as good as the new one. Buyers keep wanting more tech in the vehicles, with better safety features, better abilities etc. all this take R&D which costs big tom. 

Discovery used to be a rather unreliable vehicle, people demanded it be reliable, R&D required again.

You take your Disco in for a problem and you expect a qualified competent technician to fix the issue, fast, and right the first time. That technician needs to be paid more the more qualified he is.

That Disco requires parts, someone has to pay for those parts to be in storage

 

Then add to the fact that our government did nothing favourable for the exchange rate and you have costs of the new good rising.

 

It might not be a value proposition to you, but enough people are buying them at over R1m to justify LR still doing business in SA.

[Coolspin]

Then add to the fact that our government did nothing favourable

 

It might not be a value proposition to you, but enough people are buying them at over R1m to justify LR still doing business in SA.

If Cyril manages to turn off the gravy train taps then prob not for much longer,

Bmw, Benz and Audi included.

 

Sorry, off topic.

[The Ouzo]

If Cyril manages to turn off the gravy train taps then prob not for much longer,

Bmw, Benz and Audi included.

 

Sorry, off topic.

Prices won’t come down, but what you will see is more stuff as standard instead of being optional extras, also better deals, frozen prices.

 

Conversely used car pricing will plummet.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GLuvsMtb]

Cool thread Slowbee

 

My thoughts:

 

I don't think there is a bubble, I think it is just a case that just like everything else mtb'ing and the way we are participating in the sport is evolving.

 

In line with what others pointed out, the number of new trails available to the public(here in the WC) have exploded over the past few years. You can literally go ride a different trail system every weekend without riding the same place twice for months at a time.

 

When I started out there were far fewer public trails and the best way to experience different places to ride were to enter funrides. That has certainly changed.

 

I think now we do funrides for different reasons - an event like Darling Brew sells out - it takes us on routes we don't ride often and the hospitality & vibe is great, while old established races like the Stellenbosch MTB are falling of the map.

 

I'm not sure the argument that races are too expensive is really true - the races that sell out are usually more expensive than average. I can list a number of cheap races that don't/didn't attract the numbers to survive. Despite moaning about entry fees people aren't interested in cheap races with just the vanilla offering. They are happy to pay more if the experience is unique and they feel they get treated.

 

I also don't see entry fees coming down, to organise the type of events that are now popular incur massive overheads. (And I think cyclists in general underestimate how much it cost to host events, I certainly did)

I fully echo your sentiments. Furthermore there is a rise in more ‘ride’ oriented events opposed to full on races. These events tends to be more family friendly. Personally I would rather go to Morzine, get a ski lift pass, Airbnb a chalet and get to ride over 100km a day (most of it downhill) for a week than do 2 to 3 stage races which I’ve done already. Besides, we also have Strava, so if timing and comparative performance is your thing, you can always chase segments.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Boerklong]

I want to do that race, but was also thinking that 650 is a bid steep. I also have to travel 900km to get there.

Only reason I'm doing it is because myself and 2 friends will take it as a training ride for Trans Baviaans.

Did it last year and it was awesome, but not worth traveling 900km.