The Veganism Thread

[Chris_]

Bacteria protect themselves from antibiotics. They even communicate this between themselves. Do they feel? Do they want to survive? How do we know?

 

Your questions sound like me when watching the latest Attenborough documentary! haha

[Patchelicious]

Bacteria protect themselves from antibiotics. They even communicate this between themselves. Do they feel? Do they want to survive? How do we know?

Yeah look, there are varying levels of hypocrisy is all of these discussions. 

 

The important part for me is intent.

 

Try your best. If your best is a 90% reduction in meat consumption and that is not good enough for Odi, well then he needs to accept that. 

 

Likewise, I find it difficult to support people who say, well vegans eat bacteria so I denounce their entire message in totality.

 

Carnivores need to eat less meat and veganists need to chill a little on those who are making an effort.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Patchelicious

[Odinson]

It's not a false equivalency. It's a construct to tease out speciest thinking. I'm not equating sexual assault with eating a part of an animal, nor am I saying that I consider humans and all other animals as having the same moral value. 

 

The argument is simply that all animals are entitled to a 'baseline' moral consideration, in the same way that all humans are entitled to it. That moral consideration does not allow for exploitation. We don't have to treat humans as animals or vice versa, just acknowledge that they deserve that consideration.

 

If you reject that consideration, you're doing it merely because that animal is a different species as you. When a racist does it, they do it simply because someone of a different race, etc. It's not equating the actions, it's equating the mechanism of moral consideration. 

[Mudsimus]

Thanks for not waffling or skirting the real justification: you do it because you enjoy it.

 

Do you think that your enjoyment morally justifies the exploitation and killing of animals? This kind of thinking is problematic to me. Would I be morally justified in groping a random woman's breasts because it gives me pleasure or would we agree that harming another sentient being for our own pleasure is immoral?

 

 

Did you just compare eating meat to sexual assualt? ????

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Did you just compare eating meat to sexual assualt? ????

Not for the first time.

[Patchelicious]

 

 

https://www.health24.com/Diet-and-nutrition/News/red-meat-unhealthy-maybe-not-after-all-20191001

[Chris_]

https://www.health24.com/Diet-and-nutrition/News/red-meat-unhealthy-maybe-not-after-all-20191001

 

"It's kind of like saying: 'We know helmets can save lives, but some people still prefer the feeling of the wind in their hair when they ride bikes. And let's face it, most people won't crash,'" she said.

"But everyone agrees you should wear a helmet."

 

Is this a joke?!

[Odinson]

Yeah, Annals really opened a hornets nest with these papers they decided to publish. 

 

Here's a good discussion on the nuance you won't typically find in the posts and articles floating around the internet: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/meat-eating-your-health-really-news-david/

 

When one study makes recommendations that fly in the face of decades of research, the necessary circumspection needs to be applied. 

 

Either way, I don't think this is relevant to veganism. The health implications of eating animals shouldn't inform the moral consideration we give them. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

"It's kind of like saying: 'We know helmets can save lives, but some people still prefer the feeling of the wind in their hair when they ride bikes. And let's face it, most people won't crash,'" she said.

"But everyone agrees you should wear a helmet."

 

Is this a joke?!

 

yeah, that's a TERRIBLE analogy, and not at all near what the paper is saying.  

[Patchelicious]

Yeah, Annals really opened a hornets nest with these papers they decided to publish.

 

Here's a good discussion on the nuance you won't typically find in the posts and articles floating around the internet: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/meat-eating-your-health-really-news-david/

 

When one study makes recommendations that fly in the face of decades of research, the necessary circumspection needs to be applied.

 

Either way, I don't think this is relevant to veganism. The health implications of eating animals shouldn't inform the moral consideration we give them.

It is relevant to this thread because you have advocated and we have discussed 3 main points of plant based diets.

 

Animal rights/morality.

Carbon footprint reduction/environmental benefits.

Health improvements.

 

This is regarding the last point.

[Stretch]

Can you imagine being at a party and being cornered by a vegan christian that does crossfit

[Chris_]

Can you imagine being at a party and being cornered by a vegan christian that does crossfit

 

Imagine being cornered at a party by someone who wants to talk about them... 

 

[Odinson]

Veganism ≠ plant-based diet.

 

A plant-based diet still offers significant protection against a variety of common diseases and is known to also be the most significant in terms of environmental impact. However, just because you eat plant-based diet, doesn’t mean you have aligned yourself to vegan principles.

 

If you’ve changed the way you view animals (i.e. not considering them as beings to be exploited) and aligned your actions to that way of thinking, then we’re discussing veganism.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

It may not be the same thing, but a plant-based diet is PART of veganism. You've continually gone on about the health benefits of a plant-based diet. Those claims may not be as true as you've been led to believe, and now you're back-tracking... 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Patchelicious]

Veganism ≠ plant-based diet.

 

A plant-based diet still offers significant protection against a variety of common diseases and is known to also be the most significant in terms of environmental impact. However, just because you eat plant-based diet, doesn’t mean you have aligned yourself to vegan principles.

 

If you’ve changed the way you view animals (i.e. not considering them as beings to be exploited) and aligned your actions to that way of thinking, then we’re discussing veganism.

I understand this.

 

Again, the post was about a study that offers an alternate view point on the many posts about the health implications of eating red meat.

 

Do you want to discuss the merits of that study or should we dismiss it because it can’t reconcile with the morality aspect?

[Chris_]

It may not be the same thing, but a plant-based diet is PART of veganism. You've continually gone on about the health benefits of a plant-based diet. Those claims may not be as true as you've been led to believe, and now you're back-tracking... 

 

No. If it was presented as black and white one vs another - perhaps, but this has never been his primary focus.