The Veganism Thread

[Patchelicious]

I'm not a vegenarian dude .....

 

[Skylark]

Does anyone here make use of these guys?

 

https://www.faithful-to-nature.co.za/

 

Do they deliver up here in Gauteng?

Awesome company, they deliver anywhere in Sa.

[Chris_]

This is truly amazing, and by amazing I mean I cannot fathom its factually accurate....

 

[Eldron]

This is truly amazing, and by amazing I mean I cannot fathom its factually accurate....

A few sites quote 15,000l of water per 1kg beef so a 200g patty is around 3,000 litres of water.

 

Wheat is 1,500l of water per 1kg wheat.

 

I'm trying to fathom that myself. Sounds unbelievable.

 

Surely most of that water is put back into the environment in some way.... If those numbers were correct the earth would be a dry husk be now.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Eldron

[Escapee..]

This is truly amazing, and by amazing I mean I cannot fathom its factually accurate....

 

Wow that`s incredible!

[Odinson]

A few sites quote 15,000l of water per 1kg beef so a 200g patty is around 3,000 litres of water.

 

Wheat is 1,500l of water per 1kg wheat.

 

I'm trying to fathom that myself. Sounds unbelievable.

 

Surely most of that water is put back into the environment in some way.... If those numbers were correct the earth would be a dry husk be now.

From birth to death, a cow is using so much water. Drinking, feed as well as the water for feed and use on the farm.

 

Cattle farming is a f*cking blight on our planet.

[Eldron]

From birth to death, a cow is using so much water. Drinking, feed as well as the water for feed and use on the farm.

 

Cattle farming is *one of the many many* f*cking blights on our planet.

Fixed!

[Odinson]

Fixed!

*cough* easy fix *cough* plant-based is the future *cough*

 

Is Fisherman’s Friend vegan?

[Eldron]

*cough* easy fix *cough* plant-based is the future *cough*

 

Is Fisherman’s Friend vegan?

I'm with you on this one but there are many many ways to reduce our carbon and water footprint. Focusing too much on one at the expense of others is not a great idea.

[Odinson]

I'm with you on this one but there are many many ways to reduce our carbon and water footprint. Focusing too much on one at the expense of others is not a great idea.

I agree. Fully.

 

The thing is though that many folks can’t buy Teslas or take their home off the grid. Choosing a veggie burger over a cow flesh burger is just so easy.

 

I just want people to start moving along the spectrum.

[Eldron]

I agree. Fully.

 

The thing is though that many folks can’t buy Teslas or take their home off the grid. Choosing a veggie burger over a cow flesh burger is just so easy.

 

I just want people to start moving along the spectrum.

100%!

[Chris_]

The problem I have is that to 99% of people a ton of CO2 or acidification or eutrophication is just science fiction and lets be honest, is too easy to skip over. These facts need to be broken down into more immediately relatable things. Perhaps this is why the other delivery method is the shock n awe tactic of abattoirs and spilling guts. Which too is easily dismissed as just that. 

 

It'll take time to educate. Habits and lifestyles are not easily changed overnight by people who are not otherwise encouraged to make a difference.

[Milkman]

This holiday season when you guys drive to Cape Town and you go through the Karoo , please stop at a farmer there and explain to him he must stop this sheep farming nonsense and plant some soybeans ,because those sheep require WAY too much water .

 

Point I am trying to make is this :

 

Only around a third of all agricultural land in the world is arable ( can be ploughed ) . The rest is too dry or wet or rocky or hilly or just not suitable to plant crops on . People therefore farm with animals on that land . Even here where I stay in the Vredefort Koepel there are very few farms that can be used for crops . 

 

So please tell me what should happen to the around 64% of Agricultural land in the world if everyone should stop using animal based foods ? 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Milkman

[Milkman]

I have absolutely no problem with people choosing to be  Vegan or vegetarian , or any other "diet" they want to be on . Everything in moderation of course .

If those vegan's want everyone else to be vegan as well though, then they should at least be able to come up with answers for the billions of people that cannot afford or are not able to have access to the means to be vegan .

The vast majority of people in the world eat what they can afford and what's available .

 

We are a very small minority that are privileged to pick and choose what we want to eat !

[Odinson]

Dude, we are growing more than enough crops to feed the entire world. We could stop all meat production right now and still be able to feed the planet.

 

Can you not accept that the current system is not tenable. It’s not about screwing the farmers over, it’s about saving this planet.

 

Edit: you’re so concerned about the people who are suffering from feed insecurity, but are happy that we feed millions of tons of soy and maize to cows, pigs and chicken for single digit calorie conversion returns?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/05/beef-eating-must-fall-drastically-as-world-population-grows-report

 

People in rich nations will have to make big cuts to the amount of beef and lamb they eat if the world is to be able to feed 10 billion people, according to a new report. These cuts and a series of other measures are also needed to prevent catastrophic climate change, it says.

 

More than 50% more food will be needed by 2050, according to the World Resources Institute (WRI) report, but greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture will have to fall by two-thirds at the same time. The extra food will have to be produced without creating new farmland, it says, otherwise the world’s remaining forests face destruction. Meat and dairy production use 83% of farmland and produce 60% of agriculture’s emissions.

 

Increasing the amount of food produced per hectare was the most critical step, the experts said, followed by cutting meat-eating and putting a stop to the wasting of one-third of food produced.

 

“We have to change how we produce and consume food, not just for environmental reasons, but because this is an existential issue for humans,” said Janet Ranganathan, vice-president for science and research at the WRI.

 

Tim Searchinger, of the WRI and Princeton University, said: “If we tried to produce all the food needed in 2050 using today’s production systems, the world would have to convert most of its remaining forest, and agriculture alone would produce almost twice the emissions allowable from all human activities.”

 

The new report, launched at the UN climate summit in Katowice, Poland, follows other major scientific analyses showing that huge reductions in meat-eating are “essential” to avoid dangerous climate change. Another found that avoiding meat and dairy products was the single biggest way to reduce an individual’s environmental impact on the planet, from slowing the annihilation of wildlife to healing dead zones in the oceans.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Odinson

[Milkman]

I have mentioned before and will say again ; of course we must all try and do our part to help our planet - but there is a place for animal based foods in the world as well . I am not saying screw the planet , I want my meat ?

 

The points you mentioned all point to the same thing - over population of the planet ! Thats the real problem . Not the farmer in the Karoo raising his sheep to sell his Tjoppies at the Spar so we can braai it on a Saturday night. 

 

 The economics of farming unfortunately necessitates large scale farming where animals are kept in enclosures and fed in order to produce food cheaply for the masses . But once again - that is because there are too many people . If it wasn't for the huge population that would not have been the case .

 

So the real problem is not the fact that we eat animal based foods , but that there are too many of us !