The Veganism Thread

[GrahamS2]

 

I feel a lot of the hate geared towards vegans is uncalled for - what are you doing to lessen the suffering in this world?

Does not dishing out a PK every time a vegan spouts meat propaganda at me count?

[Chris_]

Does not dishing out a PK every time a vegan spouts meat propaganda at me count?

 

Sprouts. Good job - you're getting there.

[forkie]

i have a serious question for you vegan okes. one of my hobbies is aquaponics. basically similar to hydroponics, but instead of using  chemicals to fertilise the water you use fish. So the fish waste fertilises the plants and the plants filter the fish water. you end up with fish and veggies in one system. would you eat veggies grown in this manner?

 

EDIT: i am not trying to catch anybody out or anything, i am genuinely interested. most aquaponic grown veg is marketed as 100% organic and it would be interesting to get your take

would still like to hear some views on this....

[Chris_]

would still like to hear some views on this....

 

This may be a dumb question, but what if you have a fish allergy?

[forkie]

This may be a dumb question, but what if you have a fish allergy?

the plants use the nitrogen produced by the fish. i cant see that a fish alergy would be transferred through the plants.

 

i just think its an interesting situation because you are not directly eating fish / animals, but they are kept and bred for the purpose of growing the veg and so its indirectly a animal product

 

on fact this is how a lot of rice is grown. fish are introduced to the rice paddies to help fertilise the rice

Edited December 11, 2018 by forkie

[Chris_]

the plants use the nitrogen produced by the fish. i cant see that a fish alergy would be transferred through the plants.

 

i just think its an interesting situation because you are not directly eating fish / animals, but they are kept and bred for the purpose of growing the veg and so its indirectly a animal product

 

on fact this is how a lot of rice is grown. fish are introduced to the rice paddies to help fertilise the rice

 

What about root veg? They're then directly in contact with the food. 

 

Interestingly, (slightly removed) I used to be allergic to eggs. Either I've grown out of it - which is likely, or as I went over to free range eggs, it meant I stopped eating eggs produced by chickens that were fed a diet of fish pellets. Which is/was true for eggs back in the day.

[forkie]

What about root veg? They're then directly in contact with the food. 

 

Interestingly, (slightly removed) I used to be allergic to eggs. Either I've grown out of it - which is likely, or as I went over to free range eggs, it meant I stopped eating eggs produced by chickens that were fed a diet of fish pellets. Which is/was true for eggs back in the day.

you cant really grow root veg with this system. its more for leafy veg and some fruits

[forkie]

my little system

[GrahamS2]

Sprouts. Good job - you're getting there.

I had sprouts on my salad last night. And it was a meat free meal

[Chris_]

my little system

 

To try answer your initial question... (Disclaimer: apart from googling when you asked the question the other day, I've never heard of aquaponics.)

 

Firstly and most of all I think its awesome you're growing your own veg.

 

Secondly I like the idea of a more complete lifecycle or ecosystem.

 

Saying that I think keeping fish in a bowl to do a job where you could probably add a mixture to the same vat of water to do the same job (I'm guessing hydroponics?) is a bit contrived.

 

Fertilizer vs fish. I don't know enough about either to be honest.

[Eldron]

To try answer your initial question... (Disclaimer: apart from googling when you asked the question the other day, I've never heard of aquaponics.)

 

Firstly and most of all I think its awesome you're growing your own veg.

 

Secondly I like the idea of a more complete lifecycle or ecosystem.

 

Saying that I think keeping fish in a bowl to do a job where you could probably add a mixture to the same vat of water to do the same job (I'm guessing hydroponics?) is a bit contrived.

 

Fertilizer vs fish. I don't know enough about either to be honest.

I've never even considered the concept of "free range fertilising fish" before.

 

The system looks awesome though. Years ago I considered it for my pool. It never got used and the idea of a fresh water self regulating clean pond ecosystem. was quite appealing!

[Odinson]

Breakfast: Smoothie of 1 Beet, 1 Banna, 2 straberries, little ginger, half a cup of raw oats, tsp chilli powder, tsp tumeric, tsp cinnamon, tsp honey, 1/2 cup lowfat milk, 175ml low fat yogurt.

 

Snack: Fruit

 

Lunch: Either two eggs/can of tuna/100g cheese with 300g salad/noodles/rice crackers

 

Dinner: ~250g meat. ~ 300g veggies

 

Snack: some chocolate

 

Edit: 90% of my days follow this routine. I bake sourdough bread that is only water and wheat and if I’m lazy I just have a few slices of that for lunch or breakie. Sometimes with eggs.

 

Lots of whole foods, that's great! 

 

So, I've punched your meals into Cronometer (I took some liberties with the choice of fruits and veggies, as you weren't that specific, but I think it's okay)

 

Overall, for this specific set of ingredients, you're sitting around 42% of your calories from animal sources. 

 

 

 

Now, to get to about 90% calories from plant sources (for about the same amount of calories), this is what it'll look like: 

 

 

 

 

So, basically it involved swapping the milk and yoghurt for plant-based alternatives, switching from an egg to a chicken salad for lunch and then ditching the animal flesh at dinner for some legumes. 

 

Pretty simple. 

 

End up with better fiber, iron, folate, and Vit. C intakes, also significantly lower cholesterol and trans-fats. Protein is a bit lower, but it it's in range for someone who isn't hitting the gym/bike that hard. Could easily pushed up with some additional veggies. 

 

Edit: very doable for a 'Reductionuary' challenge 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Odinson

[Odinson]

I don’t keep a food diary anymore, but I’ve decided to try and go meat free, not vegan, meat free 3 days a week for 3 weeks as an honest concerted attempt. I’m hoping that while I’m in London that it will be a more achievable goal and that it evolves into a more focused effort.

 

I know that if I set the goal too far out that it might fail.

 

Let’s see....

 

It's good that you're putting the effort in and not setting unrealistic targets. 

 

If you're also considering whether there is a health benefit in this test, I'd suggest you be cognizant of what you'll be replacing the calories from the animal foods with. Loading up with super refined grain foods, sugars or doubling down on dairy milk and eggs probably won't have much of a benefit. Try and replace the calories with whole fruits, veggies and grains. 

[Patchelicious]

It's good that you're putting the effort in and not setting unrealistic targets.

 

If you're also considering whether there is a health benefit in this test, I'd suggest you be cognizant of what you'll be replacing the calories from the animal foods with. Loading up with super refined grain foods, sugars or doubling down on dairy milk and eggs probably won't have much of a benefit. Try and replace the calories with whole fruits, veggies and grains.

I’m fortunate that I have some subject matter experts in the family that I can get nutritional guidance from.

[Pieter1]

Lots of whole foods, that's great!

 

So, I've punched your meals into Cronometer (I took some liberties with the choice of fruits and veggies, as you weren't that specific, but I think it's okay)

 

Overall, for this specific set of ingredients, you're sitting around 42% of your calories from animal sources.

 

Normal Day_1.PNG

 

Normal Day_2.PNG

 

Now, to get to about 90% calories from plant sources (for about the same amount of calories), this is what it'll look like:

 

90% Day_1.PNG

 

1.5.PNG

 

90% Day_2.PNG

 

So, basically it involved swapping the milk and yoghurt for plant-based alternatives, switching from an egg to a chicken salad for lunch and then ditching the animal flesh at dinner for some legumes.

 

Pretty simple.

 

End up with better fiber, iron, folate, and Vit. C intakes, also significantly lower cholesterol and trans-fats. Protein is a bit lower, but it it's in range for someone who isn't hitting the gym/bike that hard. Could easily pushed up with some additional veggies.

 

Edit: very doable for a 'Reductionuary' challenge

Awesome! Thanks! I’ll write the stuff down and give it a go.

[Odinson]

Awesome! Thanks! I’ll write the stuff down and give it a go.

 

Also try out Cronometer.com if you want to see the calorie breakdown of a meal and so on.