Long Wheel Base Posted March 13, 2019 Share SU-30 Robbie Stewart, Ed-Zulu, Bateleur1 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted March 13, 2019 Share what if .. there is some type of software bug,... intermittent unrepeatable problems with code and hardware are the worst kind, and real tricky to pin down, often one doesn't and just find away around the problem and hope for the best. This aircraft is fly-by-wire, computers do it all. Looking back at the Comet disasters, it took them a while to figure our the root cause of the disasters, and it was kept flying, and kept exploding. It killed their market (and many a pax) which drove customers towards the Boeing 707 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bateleur1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share what if .. there is some type of software bug,... intermittent unrepeatable problems with code and hardware are the worst kind, and real tricky to pin down, often one doesn't and just find away around the problem and hope for the best. This aircraft is fly-by-wire, computers do it all. Looking back at the Comet disasters, it took them a while to figure our the root cause of the disasters, and it was kept flying, and kept exploding. It killed their market (and many a pax) which drove customers towards the Boeing 707 As long as they find the real cause of the problem and deal with it quickly and efffectively. Should the problem be similar to the Air Lion problem then it means they have not fixed it after the first accident. Very bad for them. Back in the day the DC10 also had a very bad start due to a badly designed cargo door. It took a few crashes before they could actually find the problem. Airbus also had a bad crash back in the day with the A320 due to a software bug. Problem got fixed and the A320 has a pretty good safety record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Yes its an evolution and a better safer product emerges .. but what I am saying is that what it was some kind of horrible software bug that they cant duplicate or nail down.... being a software engineering IT type I am only too aware of such gremlins. What we often say is that if you can duplicate a problem, you have solved it. Edited March 13, 2019 by kosmonooit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bateleur1 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Yes its an evolution and a better safer product emerges .. but what I am saying is that what it was some kind of horrible software bug that they cant duplicate or nail down.... being a software engineering IT type I am only too aware of such gremlins. What we often say is that if you can duplicate a problem, you have solved it. Yip. I understand what you are saying. In IT myself and very much agree with the bold bit. But if they can't find it then take out the problem component / code ... quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Wheel Base Posted March 13, 2019 Share As a wave of grounding MAX flights, EASAsuspends all Boeing 737 Max operations in Europeeffective 19:00 UTC.“Following the tragic accident of Ethiopian Airlinesflight ET302 involving a Boeing 737 MAX 8, theEuropean Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) istaking every step necessary to ensure the safetyof passengers.As a precautionary measure, EASA has publishedtoday an Airworthiness Directive, effective as of19:00 UTC, suspending all flight operations of allBoeing Model 737-8 MAX and 737-9 MAXaeroplanes in Europe.”In addition EASA has published a Safety Directive,effective as of 19:00 UTC, suspending allcommercial flights performed by third-countryoperators into, within or out of the EU of theabove mentioned models.” said in a Press release on12 March 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmonooit Posted March 13, 2019 Share Yip. I understand what you are saying. In IT myself and very much agree with the bold bit. But if they can't find it then take out the problem component / code ... quick. If they can identify the behavior, yes. In the Lion Air a faulty Attitude Indicator was blamed for trigger the system that pushes the nose down but from what I am hearing the final report has yet to come out, laying out the exact sequence and causes and concluding that disaster. Maybe there is some hitherto unknown set of circumstances that causes the flight computer to loose the plot and fly the aircraft into the ground at high speed. But ultimately its not actually the computer doing this, it the people who develop this system and who often over estimate their knowledge of the world and life. In this age of increasing automation, this is a risk, and an increasing likely scenario. AI - I wont even go there. Bateleur1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spokey Posted March 13, 2019 Share With all the speculation around the software and fly by wire of the modern 737 Max, here is another of my rides from earlier in my career. We used to joke that it too was fly by wire.......just many wires wound up into a cable! Long Wheel Base and SwissVan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted March 13, 2019 Share 4A5A0898-49DE-4543-B283-BECC250A8527.jpegWith all the speculation around the software and fly by wire of the modern 737 Max, here is another of my rides from earlier in my career. We used to joke that it too was fly by wire.......just many wires wound up into a cable! Phoebus Apollo... brings back memories of Rand Are they still going.... when i left Rand to go to Lanseria back in the late 90's the owner of PA at that stage (forgot his name) basically owned Rand Airport or was at the head of the airport owners body.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Going though my old hard drive has made me realise I have spotted some interesting planes along the way. This must be Boeing least attractive model - 747 conversion into the Dreamlifter for carrying 787 components around. Seen at Paine Field, on an Everett Boeing factory tour. Unfortunately no photos allowed inside. Check this production line out Check the wing on the overhead crane approaching from the right of the pic Wing with landing gear attached on the overhead crane being positioned dirtypot, patham, DJR and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spokey Posted March 13, 2019 Share Phoebus Apollo... brings back memories of Rand Are they still going.... when i left Rand to go to Lanseria back in the late 90's the owner of PA at that stage (forgot his name) basically owned Rand Airport or was at the head of the airport owners body....Hey Swiss, the old DC4’s are not operating. As for the rest of that company I do not have any idea. I have also been working out of SA for many years, I just live here! (Currently home) SwissVan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patham Posted March 13, 2019 Share As a wave of grounding MAX flights, EASAsuspends all Boeing 737 Max operations in Europeeffective 19:00 UTC.“Following the tragic accident of Ethiopian Airlinesflight ET302 involving a Boeing 737 MAX 8, theEuropean Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) istaking every step necessary to ensure the safetyof passengers.As a precautionary measure, EASA has publishedtoday an Airworthiness Directive, effective as of19:00 UTC, suspending all flight operations of allBoeing Model 737-8 MAX and 737-9 MAXaeroplanes in Europe.”In addition EASA has published a Safety Directive,effective as of 19:00 UTC, suspending allcommercial flights performed by third-countryoperators into, within or out of the EU of theabove mentioned models.” said in a Press release on12 March 2019. And now the FAA have also grounded the Max. I think I saw on another forum this is supported by Boeing (which I think makes them liable to pay the operators costs for the grounding?). https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patham Posted March 13, 2019 Share Check this production line out Pilatus 1.JPG Pilatus 2.JPG Pilatus 3.JPG Check the wing on the overhead crane approaching from the right of the pic Pilatus 5.JPG Wing with landing gear attached on the overhead crane being positioned Pilatus 4.JPG Looks like a Swiss watch factory. Pilatus ? DJR, Long Wheel Base and Robbie Stewart 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Looks like a Swiss watch factory. Pilatus ? Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Wheel Base Posted March 14, 2019 Share Looks like a Swiss watch factory. Pilatus ?Well Done. I was thinking Embraer. How wrong was I. patham 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patham Posted March 14, 2019 Share Well Done. I was thinking Embraer. How wrong was I. The PC-12s in the far background were the key. BTW, they have just stopped production of the PC-6, after a mere 60 year production run. Personally I think they did that to divert all of their time and effort into their PC-24 bizjet, which they can't make fast enough. I think they have temporarily closed their order book for that model for the second time whilst manufacturing tries to keep up. But look at the timberwork in that factory - handrails and trusses. Awesome! Should be cross-posted on the woodwork thread. The Boeing factory might be bigger but this one looks far more polished. Long Wheel Base 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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