The Abortion Issue

[Shebeen]

Finally, some good news.

I've read through this entire thread again, and can see your reasons for your views. I have actually changed my mind, now that I think about it abortion is really bad and should not really be allowed in any circumstance. The state can always look after the unwanted babies if there are any.

 

 

edit: forgot to do the comic sans first time round, HEAVY sarchasm warning on this one.

[cvancoillie]

So it was only 32 Republican men that voted yes on this bill.

Alabama State House Bill 314, sponsored by Rep. Terri Collins, a lady, makes an abortion and attempted abortion a felony. Exceptions are allowed if the mother’s life is at risk. Mothers would not be punished for having an abortion under the legislation, which would make killing a baby in an abortion a felony punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison for abortionists who kill them.

The Alabama Senate approved the ban 25-6. The Alabama House of Representatives voted 74-3 in favour of the proposal. The governor that signed the bill into law is a lady.

If 32 of the people that voted for the bill were Republican men, then the other 67 that voted for the bill must have been women or Democratic party men.

[Stretch]

Alabama State House Bill 314, sponsored by Rep. Terri Collins, a lady, makes an abortion and attempted abortion a felony. Exceptions are allowed if the mother’s life is at risk. Mothers would not be punished for having an abortion under the legislation, which would make killing a baby in an abortion a felony punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison for abortionists who kill them.

The Alabama Senate approved the ban 25-6. The Alabama House of Representatives voted 74-3 in favour of the proposal. The governor that signed the bill into law is a lady.

If 32 of the people that voted for the bill were Republican men, then the other 67 that voted for the bill must have been women or Democratic party men.

The semantics of who voted and who passed the bill is irrelevant to the actual passing of this archaic backward conservative bill

[cvancoillie]

The semantics of who voted and who passed the bill is irrelevant to the actual passing of this archaic backward conservative bill

Have you read the bill? (I have'nt). Maybe it isn't archaic, backward and conservative.

The post I reacted to is so obviously rubbish. It would help to stick to facts.

[Odinson]

Have you read the bill? (I have'nt). Maybe it isn't archaic, backward and conservative.

The post I reacted to is so obviously rubbish. It would help to stick to facts.

 

It's exactly that! Making it illegal to perform abortions in cases of incest and rape?! 

[Stretch]

Have you read the bill? (I have'nt). Maybe it isn't archaic, backward and conservative.

The post I reacted to is so obviously rubbish. It would help to stick to facts.

Yup..I was responding to both of you indirectly. Have I read it... No... Can I conclude it's archaic without reading it....yes (Based upon my viewpoint of abortion)

[Robbie Stewart]

In 2015, the state of Florida performed 71740 abortions. 

 

How many were done because of rape? 0.085%, or more simply just 8

How many were because of incest? 0.001%, or more simply just 1

How many because of economic / social reasons? 6.268%, or more simply 4497

How many were elective? 92.330%, or more simply 66217

 

But if the argument is used to defend the mother's "rights", then what of the rights of the child to life, which should ALWAYS supersede the right of the mother to abort? How can the mother defend her right to not be pregnant by denying her unborn child the more fundamental right to life, regardless of the origin of that life. That mother may not have chosen to be raped, but the child will never choose the die because of that moment of crime the mother suffered. There are adoption agencies and many other courses of action a pregnant mother can take to not kill her unborn child.

 

What the statistics above prove, is nothing other than women use abortion as a convenient form of contraception, without realizing the impact to her unborn child, i.e. denial of the fundamental and most basic right to life. There is in my estimation no plausible argument against such behaviour other than accusing that mother, and all doctors who have done so, of murder, and therefor I agree with the state legislature of Alabama by declaring abortion illegal.

[Stretch]

 

 

What the statistics above prove, is nothing other than women use abortion as a convenient form of contraception, .

We've both discussed this before... But...If you honestly believe this... Then you have absolutely no concept of what a women goes through when she has an abortion.

[Chris_]

In 2015, the state of Florida performed 71740 abortions. 

 

How many were done because of rape? 0.085%, or more simply just 8

How many were because of incest? 0.001%, or more simply just 1

How many because of economic / social reasons? 6.268%, or more simply 4497

How many were elective? 92.330%, or more simply 66217

 

But if the argument is used to defend the mother's "rights", then what of the rights of the child to life, which should ALWAYS supersede the right of the mother to abort? How can the mother defend her right to not be pregnant by denying her unborn child the more fundamental right to life, regardless of the origin of that life. That mother may not have chosen to be raped, but the child will never choose the die because of that moment of crime the mother suffered. There are adoption agencies and many other courses of action a pregnant mother can take to not kill her unborn child.

 

What the statistics above prove, is nothing other than women use abortion as a convenient form of contraception, without realizing the impact to her unborn child, i.e. denial of the fundamental and most basic right to life. There is in my estimation no plausible argument against such behaviour other than accusing that mother, and all doctors who have done so, of murder, and therefor I agree with the state legislature of Alabama by declaring abortion illegal.

 

At the risk of not looking back through the old posts... Do you (you personally) put an age to said unborn child which abortion becomes an issue? Or is it from inception (I'm not sure thats the right word)?

[@ndy]

In 2015, the state of Florida performed 71740 abortions. 

 

 

 

Humans are the only species on this planet whose existence is to the detriment of so many others. I would argue that 71740 less people is something positive. If the planet and all life on it had a voice I doubt there would be any support for pro life with regard to humans.

[IceCreamMan]

We've both discussed this before... But...If you honestly believe this... Then you have absolutely no concept of what a women goes through when she has an abortion.

 

Absolutes are always difficult to define. 

 

However, I would think abortion is an absolute ineffective form of contraception but a very very effective tool against conception .

[Pinarello1]

That is great news. Now little 11 year old Sally, who was raped by her uncle,and only found out at 7 weeks that she is pregnant, will have to go through the trauma of carrying and delivering the baby. But hey, at least that clump of cells with no brain or cerebral cortex lives.

Wow, just wow

[Robbie Stewart]

At the risk of not looking back through the old posts... Do you (you personally) put an age to said unborn child which abortion becomes an issue? Or is it from inception (I'm not sure thats the right word)?

 

I consider life to begin at the moment of conception. I have facts (scientific, from peer reviewed doctorate professors) I can use to back my point of view. I will have to post them tomorrow, as I am unable to reference them for the simple reason I am not at home now, and the book is on my bedside cabinet.

 

Clipping from the bill which was linked in a earlier post (bold and italic editing my own):

 

In the United States Declaration of Independence, the principle of natural law that "all men are created equal" was articulated. The self-evident truth found in natural law, that all human beings are equal from creation, was at least one of the bases for the anti-slavery movement, the women's suffrage movement, the Nuremberg war crimes trials, and the American civil rights movement.

 

If those movements had not been able to appeal to the truth of universal human equality, they could not have been successful.

 

(e) Abortion advocates speak to women's rights, but they ignore the unborn child, while medical science has increasingly recognized the humanity of the unborn child.

 

(f) Recent medical advances prove a baby's heart starts to beat at around six weeks. At about eight weeks, the heartbeat can be heard through an ultrasound examination. A fetal Doppler can detect a fetal heartbeat as early as 13 weeks.

 

(g) Ultrasound imaging shows the developing child in utero.

 

(h) As early as six weeks after fertilization, fetal photography shows the clear development of a human being. The Alabama Department of Public Health publication "Did You Know . . ." demonstrates through actual pictures at two-week intervals throughout the entire pregnancy the clear images of a developing human being.

 

(i) It is estimated that 6,000,000 Jewish people were murdered in German concentration camps during World War II; 3,000,000 people were executed by Joseph Stalin's regime in Soviet gulags; 2,500,000 people were murdered during the Chinese "Great Leap Forward" in 1958; 1,500,000 to 3,000,000 people were murdered by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia during the 1970s; and approximately 1,000,000 people were murdered during the Rwandan genocide in 1994. All of these are widely acknowledged to have been crimes against humanity. By comparison, more than 50 million babies have been aborted in the United States since the Roe decision in 1973, more than three times the number who were killed in German death camps, Chinese purges, Stalin's gulags, Cambodian killing fields, and the Rwandan genocide combined.

[Piston ZA]

Alabama State House Bill 314, sponsored by Rep. Terri Collins, a lady, makes an abortion and attempted abortion a felony. Exceptions are allowed if the mother’s life is at risk. Mothers would not be punished for having an abortion under the legislation, which would make killing a baby in an abortion a felony punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison for abortionists who kill them.

The Alabama Senate approved the ban 25-6. The Alabama House of Representatives voted 74-3 in favour of the proposal. The governor that signed the bill into law is a lady.

If 32 of the people that voted for the bill were Republican men, then the other 67 that voted for the bill must have been women or Democratic party men.

The figure was referring to the Senate vote, and I see I did get the number wrong. It was in fact 25, and all were male republicans.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/15/politics/alabama-abortion-ban-bill-who-voted/index.html

[Pinarello1]

Humans are the only species on this planet whose existence is to the detriment of so many others. I would argue that 71740 less people is something positive. If the planet and all life on it had a voice I doubt there would be any support for pro life with regard to humans.

Ditto. Wow just wow

[Skubarra]

Alabama State House Bill 314, sponsored by Rep. Terri Collins, a lady, makes an abortion and attempted abortion a felony. Exceptions are allowed if the mother’s life is at risk. Mothers would not be punished for having an abortion under the legislation, which would make killing a baby in an abortion a felony punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison for abortionists who kill them.

The Alabama Senate approved the ban 25-6. The Alabama House of Representatives voted 74-3 in favour of the proposal. The governor that signed the bill into law is a lady.

If 32 of the people that voted for the bill were Republican men, then the other 67 that voted for the bill must have been women or Democratic party men.

 

Tx for pointing that out. So it was only in the senate where all 25 that voted to approve it were only white males.

 

Still terrible but clearly some of the responses that it was ONLY white males that approved this whole process are a bit misleading.

 

Eish those people would have thrived in the middle ages