Tokai Trails

[Stigernator]

The Vision section of the website states that the organisation is there to serve the Cape Town Public - Yes the guys have & continue to put in works in the area but it has taken 4 years since the fires & all the trails are not complete.

Jonkershoek had a similar disaster & the entire trail network was safely rehabilitated within 2 years. 

Perhaps "we" can lean on entities and resources such as Tygerberg MTB & the like who are actively engaged with both private and government landowners for guidance. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Juliaaaaaas

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

The Vision section of the website states that the organisation is there to serve the Cape Town Public - Yes the guys have & continue to put in works in the area but it has taken 4 years since the fires & all the trails are not complete.

Jonkershoek had a similar disaster & the entire trail network was safely rehabilitated within 2 years. 

Perhaps "we" can lean on entities and resources such as Tygerberg MTB & the like who are actively engaged with both private and government landowners for guidance. 

 

unfortunately in this case, dealing with Parks is not the same as dealing with Cape Nature. Add to that that Spaz have come in BIG TIME with the Jonkers site (amongst others) and there's a massive difference in operational efficiency. Solely down to that one factor, dealing with Parks. 

 

(fwiw, former TokaiMTB secretary & committee member, and big driver of volunteer build days when I was there)

Edited August 22, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Jewbacca]

 

The Vision section of the website states that the organisation is there to serve the Cape Town Public - Yes the guys have & continue to put in works in the area but it this has taken 4 years since the fires & all the trails are not complete.

Jonkershoek had a similar disaster & the entire trail network was safely rehabilitated within 2 years. 

Perhaps "we" can lean on entities and resources such as Tygerberg MTB & the like who are actively engaged with both private and government landowners for guidance. 

 

They don't have to work within the confines of TMNP or Sanparks.

 

I'm going to sound like a knob here, but using Jonkers (MTO/Cape Nature and a 2million zar a year plus change FUNDED budget) or Tygerberg trails (private land) shows how ignorant your comment is and how little you know about how Tokai works.

 

BATrun - Cancelled

PUFfer - probably cancelled for 2020

 

These 2 races are ICONIC trail runs, both being thrown under the bus because TMNP and Sanparks staff can't be bothered to open some gates or fill out some forms once a year despite having huge history and massive community behind their claim.

 

If you don't know, you don't know

Edited August 22, 2019 by Jewbacca

[Stigernator]

If TokaiMTB has frustrated all avenues with SANPARKS, have they escalated matters to the Department of Agriculture who SANPARKS reports onto?

There seems to be a massive drive by the government on developing the tourism space as well the safety of mountain users for both runners and cyclist~

This could be another angle to bring them back to the table.

Using a structured channel to sell the concept & leverage the safety angle (wrt the recent fatality of the Ukranian runner on Chappies) could be that avenue which is worth pursuing; failing that using the media to highlight that "gated safer zones" which Tokai is to draw attention to the cause & get both private sponsors & government to plough resources into Tokai / Silvermine & Table Mountains network.

Media liaison representatives cell numbers and contact details are in the link -  https://www.environment.gov.za/contacts/media)

#You welcome

 

 

[DJR]

 

If TokaiMTB has frustrated all avenues with SANPARKS, have they escalated matters to the Department of Agriculture who SANPARKS reports onto?

There seems to be a massive drive by the government on developing the tourism space as well the safety of mountain users for both runners and cyclist~

This could be another angle to bring them back to the table.

Using a structured channel to sell the concept & leverage the safety angle (wrt the recent fatality of the Ukranian runner on Chappies) could be that avenue which is worth pursuing; failing that using the media to highlight that "gated safer zones" which Tokai is to draw attention to the cause & get both private sponsors & government to plough resources into Tokai / Silvermine & Table Mountains network.

Media liaison representatives cell numbers and contact details are in the link -  https://www.environment.gov.za/contacts/media)

#You welcome

 

 

 

Dude, you really do sound like Julius

[Stigernator]

Dude, you really do sound like Julius

#POINT OF ORDER SPEAKER 

[popcorn_skollie]

I paid for a membership a couple of years ago or last year or whenever they were offered. I remember there being prizes on offer and some other benefits.

 

Yeah I remember that too. I think it was announced at the agm was it 2 years ago? Longer? 

 

The new fee and rules regarding agm attendance was news to me. But then I haven't really made an effort to stay informed. I understand the decision. R300 is nothing all things considered. And with enough support it would go a long way to help achieving goals. But not everyone understands that. No matter how many times it's been explained. I also think that everyone who considers themselves a stakeholder should be able to voice themselves.

Here or elsewhere for that matter. And why some people would interpret it as a sudden pricetag on being able to do so. Even when that was never the intention.

 

To everyone who loves Tokai as much as I do. Not a single cent of our activity card or daily entrance fees goes to TokaiMTB. It does not help them in any way at all.

It merely gains us entry to Tokai so that we may enjoy the activities there.

(including mountain biking) Sanparks is not involved in the building or maintenance of any mountain bike trails. Now imagine the degree of frustration TokaiMTB faces attempting to overcome that. Not to mention the plethora of red tape that comes with it in the process. 

 

To everyone at TokaiMTB. Thank you. The magnitude of gratitude for everything you have endured and achieved to date really should go without saying. But it doesn't mean that those who raise concerns should be brushed off as unappreciative. They deserve to be heard.

 

To Eddy. I hear you my bru. I share your frustration. To Pierre. I know you reading this. Don't think that all the blood and sweat you put into Tokai over the years goes unnoticed. I see you bra. To everyone else. Come join TokaiMTB. There's a bike in it for one of us. But more importantly. There's trails in it for everyone.

[Jewbacca]

Yeah I remember that too. I think it was announced at the agm was it 2 years ago? Longer? 

 

The new fee and rules regarding agm attendance was news to me. But then I haven't really made an effort to stay informed. I understand the decision. R300 is nothing all things considered. And with enough support it would go a long way to help achieving goals. But not everyone understands that. No matter how many times it's been explained. I also think that everyone who considers themselves a stakeholder should be able to voice themselves.

Here or elsewhere for that matter. And why some people would interpret it as a sudden pricetag on being able to do so. Even when that was never the intention.

 

To everyone who loves Tokai as much as I do. Not a single cent of our activity card or daily entrance fees goes to TokaiMTB. It does not help them in any way at all.

It merely gains us entry to Tokai so that we may enjoy the activities there.

(including mountain biking) Sanparks is not involved in the building or maintenance of any mountain bike trails. Now imagine the degree of frustration TokaiMTB faces attempting to overcome that. Not to mention the plethora of red tape that comes with it in the process. 

 

To everyone at TokaiMTB. Thank you. The magnitude of gratitude for everything you have endured and achieved to date really should go without saying. But it doesn't mean that those who raise concerns should be brushed off as unappreciative. They deserve to be heard.

 

To Eddy. I hear you my bru. I share your frustration. To Pierre. I know you reading this. Don't think that all the blood and sweat you put into Tokai over the years goes unnoticed. I see you bra. To everyone else. Come join TokaiMTB. There's a bike in it for one of us. But more importantly. There's trails in it for everyone.

As far as I understand, those of us who payed/joined 2 years ago are the existing members and our 'membership' starts now.

 

Well that's what I understtod from the email.

 

Otherwise sign me up for another R300.

 

I use my activity card for dog walking on the mountain and surfing in the reserve, so I get more than my bang for buck with regards that.

 

The trails and the access on a bike are where it's at, so whatever needs doing to keep that going I am behind it. I have already lost 2 of my favourite runs, I don't want to lose the local, safe trails on my back door.

[Dirt Tracker]

Saw in the newsletter that they have raised R30,000 through memberships. So that makes it 100 members so far? Drop in the ocean for the number of people that roll up there on a weekly basis.

Hopefully the posts and threads in the last few days have at least raised awareness the the membership scheme and increased the numbers signing up.

 

Way I see it is my that my activity card is for all my CT activities and one of those is that I need it to go riding anywhere on the mountain. My TokaiMTB membership is for my riding, my little bit towards the cause and a lot cheaper than a fair few of the annual passes about. I've got no issues. 

[Stigernator]

unfortunately in this case, dealing with Parks is not the same as dealing with Cape Nature. Add to that that Spaz have come in BIG TIME with the Jonkers site (amongst others) and there's a massive difference in operational efficiency. Solely down to that one factor, dealing with Parks. 

 

(fwiw, former TokaiMTB secretary & committee member, and big driver of volunteer build days when I was there)

I appreciate that the scenarios are wired differently but the common ground is they are public use spaces used for running, walking or cycling. *at risk

Maybe you are better positioned to connect the dots & clarify the following- 

With my valid green-card I can cycle on SANPARKS property ie. Table Mountain, Lions Head, Newlands, Kirstenbosch etc, those trails are built & have signage provided by PPA.

Surely PPA can assist you guys with how to go about dealing with SANPARKS then? 

I am sure they are approachable to assist in this space & their contact details are easy to find.

Spaz Yes, saw their branding all over at Jonkers - I live in the Southern Suburbs & I can assure Jonkers trails are in another league brah.

Does TokaiMTB have the rights to sell off advertising rights on public spaces to bridge the trail building topic? 

Could be a revenue generator which be used to employ contracted trail builders instead having volunteer trail building days?

[Jewbacca]

 

I appreciate that the scenarios are wired differently but the common ground is they are public use spaces used for running, walking or cycling. *at risk

Maybe you are better positioned to connect the dots & clarify the following- 

With my valid green-card I can cycle on SANPARKS property ie. Table Mountain, Lions Head, Newlands, Kirstenbosch etc, those trails are built & have signage provided by PPA.

Surely PPA can assist you guys with how to go about dealing with SANPARKS then? 

I am sure they are approachable to assist in this space & their contact details are easy to find.

Spaz Yes, saw their branding all over at Jonkers - I live in the Southern Suburbs & I can assure Jonkers trails are in another league brah.

Does TokaiMTB have the rights to sell off advertising rights on public spaces to bridge the trail building topic? 

Could be a revenue generator which be used to employ contracted trail builders instead having volunteer trail building days?

 

Are you trolling?

 

None of them are public spaces. Your 'green card' does not permit cycling anywhere on the mountain.

 

If you think none of the things you have just 'thought of' today have not been approached, thought of, proposed, canned, rerouted etc 5 million times then you are either;

 

1. Incredibly ill informed

2. Trolling

3. Think very highly of yourself

4. Are a kid (under 25) with no real life experience

5. Have had zero dealings with PPA or a Nationally run service or isntitution

6. Other

7. Some of the above combines

 

I just hope you're trolling. Comments like yours actually make my blood boil the way they pang of arrogance but are so way off the mark it's scary.

 

I am not directly involved in TokaiMTB but I am emotionally invested. I hope you're trolling, otherwise tone down your comments and ask questions in a respectful, less condescending tone please.

[DJR]

..............

With my valid green-card I can cycle on SANPARKS property ie. Table Mountain, Lions Head, Newlands, Kirstenbosch etc, t...........

• Kirstenbosch belongs to the Botanical Society, and has nothing to do with Table Mountain national park or SANParks. To enter there you pay at the gate or pay a yearly membership fee. You cannot cycle in the garden, but you are allowed to ride through the top of their land provided you have a valid SANParks Activity card. They allow this because they are nice and they built the track. If you are a member you can attend their AGM and vote.
• Your SANParks Green Card has nothing to do with cycling. It gives you yearly entry into our National Parks, some or all, depending on how much you pay. It does not allow you to cycle there. Table Mountain National park is one of several National parks we have, like Kruger.
• For cycling in Tokai or elsewhere on the mountain where it is allowed, you need a Table Mountain National Park Activity card. You pay a yearly fee, or if you don't want to, you pay at the gate every time you go in. Dog walkers, rock climbers and hang gliders also need this. Hikers and runners don't (wrongly in my opinion)
• To be able to attend and vote at the TokaiMTB AGM, you join and pay a fee. This allow you to be part of the structure and determine the direction it takes, also to elect the committee to work on your behalf in dealings with all the above.
• You can also join the EFF, but you will have to pay something, and you will then be able to attend their conferences and be allowed to vote for Julius or whoever you want, a bit like the TokaiMTB. Pay, belong, have a say.

Edited August 22, 2019 by DJR

[Eddy Gordo]

https://www.sanparks.org/docs/general/emp_mountain_biking.pdf

 

Environmental Management Programme (EMP) for Recreational Road Cycling and Mountain Biking: Table Mountain National Park (TMNP) compiled by SANParks and Table Mountain Mountain Bike Forum (TMMTB Forum

[Trance Dance]

They don't have to work within the confines of TMNP or Sanparks.

 

I'm going to sound like a knob here, but using Jonkers (MTO/Cape Nature and a 2million zar a year plus change FUNDED budget) or Tygerberg trails (private land) shows how ignorant your comment is and how little you know about how Tokai works.

 

BATrun - Cancelled

PUFfer - probably cancelled for 2020

 

These 2 races are ICONIC trail runs, both being thrown under the bus because TMNP and Sanparks staff can't be bothered to open some gates or fill out some forms once a year despite having huge history and massive community behind their claim.

 

If you don't know, you don't know

I'm also bleak about Batrun being cancelled. Can't understand their reasoning at all! Apparently too risky? In the 18 years the event has been held there hasn't been one incident.

 

Puffer has had a couple of incidents with participants getting hurt. I didn't know this was being cancelled as well.

 

If safety is their concern they should close Lion's Head. Or at least fix the path...

[jimmy hardtail]

Was gonna post stuff. Just dont care now

Edited August 22, 2019 by jimmy hardtail

[Kranswurm]

 

• Kirstenbosch belongs to the Botanical Society, and has nothing to do with Table Mountain national park or SANParks. To enter there you pay at the gate or pay a yearly membership fee. You cannot cycle in the garden, but you are allowed to ride through the top of their land provided you have a valid SANParks Activity card. They allow this because they are nice and they built the track. If you are a member you can attend their AGM and vote.
• Your SANParks Green Card has nothing to do with cycling. It gives you yearly entry into our National Parks, some or all, depending on how much you pay. It does not allow you to cycle there. Table Mountain National park is one of several National parks we have, like Kruger.
• For cycling in Tokai or elsewhere on the mountain where it is allowed, you need a Table Mountain National Park Activity card. You pay a yearly fee, or if you don't want to, you pay at the gate every time you go in. Dog walkers, rock climbers and hang gliders also need this. Hikers and runners don't (wrongly in my opinion)
• To be able to attend and vote at the TokaiMTB AGM, you join and pay a fee. This allow you to be part of the structure and determine the direction it takes, also to elect the committee to work on your behalf in dealings with all the above.
• You can also join the EFF, but you will have to pay something, and you will then be able to attend their conferences and be allowed to vote for Julius or whoever you want, a bit like the TokaiMTB. Pay, belong, have a say.

Why bother