Solutions for loadshedding

[Karman de Lange]

1. First I have heard of this requirement, where can I check the list? I have my eye on the Kodak VMIII 5KW paired with a Pylontech 2.4kWh LIFEPO4 battery pack, would this be cleared by Eskom?

 

2. Also never heard of the Fire Department thing, is that a municipality specific bylaw? I wonder if it applies to Tshwane? I know of the Electrical CoC for insurance purposes and if you want to sell it one day, so I was planning to have that done regardless.

 

The battery explosion risk is something I wonder about, I might just mount it externally just for the peace of mind aspect.

 

I see some inverters are rated to be mounted outdoors, as longs as it sits underneath a roof overhang. I presume that the LIFEPO4 batteries are also happy with that mounting. Especially in Pretoria, where we have way less moisture than the cities on the coast.

 

Dunno about jhb, but here the list of from WC

 

https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Forms,%20notices,%20tariffs%20and%20lists/Approved%20Photovoltaic%20(PV)%20Inverter%20List.pdf

 

The fire approval I think is from the electric standards book when you run a UPS (which you going todo as you have battery)  (I will go do some googling)

 

The fireman cut is so that they can make premisses safe in case of a fire.. So if they switch eskom off, and now your UPS kicks they spray water and get electricuted , you might hold liable

 

https://www.voltex.co.za/product/waco-era-fireman-switch-20a-double-pole-fs220/

 

The Kodak/Mecer and those copies as far I know is not approved, then you need to install a Ziehl UFR1001E in front of it, last price was R12k , maybe more now.

[Vetplant]

Dunno about jhb, but here the list of from WC

 

https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Forms,%20notices,%20tariffs%20and%20lists/Approved%20Photovoltaic%20(PV)%20Inverter%20List.pdf

 

The fire approval I think is from the electric standards book when you run a UPS (which you going todo as you have battery)  (I will go do some googling)

 

The fireman cut is so that they can make premisses safe in case of a fire.. So if they switch eskom off, and now your UPS kicks they spray water and get electricuted , you might hold liable

 

https://www.voltex.co.za/product/waco-era-fireman-switch-20a-double-pole-fs220/

 

The Kodak/Mecer and those copies as far I know is not approved, then you need to install a Ziehl UFR1001E in front of it, last price was R12k , maybe more now.

Thanks, I'll do some reading up.

[Karman de Lange]

Thanks, I'll do some reading up.

 

I see the firemans might be our local muni bylaw .. so maybe just check your muni bylaws as well.

 

Best would be to get the SSEG application form, and start getting the basics checked off on it.  Most of the thing you need to comply with is listed on it.

[Vetplant]

I see the firemans might be our local muni bylaw .. so maybe just check your muni bylaws as well.

 

Best would be to get the SSEG application form, and start getting the basics checked off on it.  Most of the thing you need to comply with is listed on it.

Thanks. My thinking is that the Western Cape is actually on the ball w.r.t. Solar and battery backup, Tshwane is probably still lagging way behind on this.

 

So I might as well just comply with the stricter regulations you guys have in the WC, just in case Tshwane changes their minds in the future, then I know I don't have to do a retrofit in the future.

 

Adding some proper isolators isn't changing the overall input cost significantly, so might as well do it upfront.

 

[Karman de Lange]

Thanks. My thinking is that the Western Cape is actually on the ball w.r.t. Solar and battery backup, Tshwane is probably still lagging way behind on this.

 

So I might as well just comply with the stricter regulations you guys have in the WC, just in case Tshwane changes their minds in the future, then I know I don't have to do a retrofit in the future.

 

Adding some proper isolators isn't changing the overall input cost significantly, so might as well do it upfront.

 

 

 

My methodology(?) is .. make it safe.  I would feel rather *** if inverter exploded and killed my family cause I could not be arsed to install R15 circuit breaker.

 

But ja , I also do all my own electric work after a sparky from well known company came to "fix" our earth leakage tripping  by bypassing the it completely...... We found this out  later when I thought i should check if the button on it still works.... it did not .. opened the DB and nothing was connected to it . . Reconnected it and eventually replaced geyser element that was the cause.

 

I bought all the SANS documentation and read it cover to cover and all my work is 100% legal , up to standard or beyond.   

[Karman de Lange]

Yep, I roped in my trusty local Electrician. He agreed to do a CoC for the whole house after the installation. So all risks covered methinks...

 

Are you planning grid tied, or UPS function?   2 very different legalities

 

(just noticed the inverter you speced, sounds like ups ?)

Edited February 19, 2021 by Karman de Lange

[The Ouzo]

Thanks. My thinking is that the Western Cape is actually on the ball w.r.t. Solar and battery backup, Tshwane is probably still lagging way behind on this.

 

So I might as well just comply with the stricter regulations you guys have in the WC, just in case Tshwane changes their minds in the future, then I know I don't have to do a retrofit in the future.

 

Adding some proper isolators isn't changing the overall input cost significantly, so might as well do it upfront.

 

yip, was thinking , even if the firemans switch is not regulated, it is a pretty good idea to ad one in.

[Vetplant]

Are you planning grid tied, or UPS function?   2 very different legalities

 

(just noticed the inverter you speced, sounds like ups ?)

Grid tied, with battery backup.

 

It does not feed back into grid and I am happy with that because our meter does not turn backwards and Tshwane is not very keen on giving credits for power supplied even if you do switch to their smart meters that allow it.

 

My Tentative Plan is as follows:

(Fireman switch added after seeing your suggestion)

[Karman de Lange]

Are you sure the VMIII pulls of solar first before grid?

 

You might find that only keeps the battery charged, so you will only have the benefit of the solar when you have power failure.

 

Also, on your diagram .. try get method to swith home direk to grid/generator for when the inverter packs up and you waiting for repairs.. With the victron the in/out AC cables are male female, so you can simply unplug, and plug into each other and power house normaly. (its legal as its break before make switch over).

 

 

 

 

The OG 5.48 is ideal as an affordable and fully functional centre of your off-grid system. The wide MPP voltage range makes DC string design with your choice of module easy.   It's best suited to smaller domestic systems where no parallel operation is needed.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Karman de Lange

[Vetplant]

Are you sure the VMIII pulls of solar first before grid?

 

You might find that only keeps the battery charged, so you will have the benefit of the solar when you have power failure.

 

Also, on your diagram .. try get method to swith home direk to grid/generator for when the inverter packs up and you waiting for repairs.. With the victron the in/out AC cables are male female, so you can simply unplug, and plug into each other and power house normaly. (its legal as its break before make switch over).

You can set up which supply it sees as the priority power source. "Solar First" is an option.

 

The installation and User Manual explains more on this (Model: OG5.48)

 

A friend is running this exact same model in the way I intend to do it, thus I am pretty sure it will suit my purposes.

 

Thanks for the tip on bypassing the inverter if something fails, I'll look at it and try to implement a solution.

[Karman de Lange]

You can set up which supply it sees as the priority power source. "Solar First" is an option.

 

The installation and User Manual explains more on this (Model: OG5.48)

 

A friend is running this exact same model in the way I intend to do it, thus I am pretty sure it will suit my purposes.

 

Thanks for the tip on bypassing the inverter if something fails, I'll look at it and try to implement a solution.

 

cool .. I have no knowledge of Kodak .. its after my "time"  

 

It does look like nice inverter for our off grid installation though ... need to investigate.  hell lot cheaper than victron...  

[LazyTrailRider]

Grid tied, with battery backup.

 

It does not feed back into grid and I am happy with that because our meter does not turn backwards and Tshwane is not very keen on giving credits for power supplied even if you do switch to their smart meters that allow it.

 

What you're planning is referred to as a hybrid system, which is what I have.

• When there is sunlight, it charges the battery and runs the house.
• When there is no sunlight, the house runs off the battery.
• If the battery is empty, the system switches to grid which then both recharges (at a configurable rate) the battery and runs the house until the battery is at a set level, at which point it will disconnect from grid and run from battery again.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Martin Hattingh

[Vetplant]

 

What you're planning is referred to as a hybrid system, which is what I have.

• When there is sunlight, it charges the battery and runs the house.
• When there is no sunlight, the house runs off the battery.
• If the battery is empty, the system switches to grid which then both recharges (at a configurable rate) the battery and runs the house until the battery is at a set level, at which point it will disconnect from grid and run from battery again.

 

Perfect, that is exactly the setup I am hoping to achieve.

 

The haphazard nature of Loadshedding these days means I will probably be conservative in how much of my batteries I decide to use before switching back to grid power.

 

Don't want to be caught at max discharge if and when Mr De Ruyter and friends informs us they had another unit trip at Kusile or the coal got wet.

[kosmonooit]

I've recently spent some time figuring out how those Axpert/Kodak/Synapse type inverters - solar chargers, picking up stompies at various sites after customers realise they have been over promised and under delivered, Recently been looking very closely at one system that was installed with the promise 'it does everything' but no one knew was was going on and the supplier got the boot after wanting to charge R5k for a 'service' which was to wash the PV panels. I set up a PC with that Watchpower software and remote access, so been coming to grips with how it works (or doesn't work)

 

So from what I can figure out in the modes Solar-Batter-Utility or Solar-Utility-Battery.

 

The load will be powered from the solar providing the load is less that the PV power input. 

 

In SUB mode, the load will be switched back to mains when the load is more that the PV power, and the PV will charge the batteries. Battery power will be used when no mains/utility.

 

in SBU mode, the inverter will dip into the batteries reserve until the set voltage discharge level is reached, and then back to mains/Utility.

 

Looking at the daily data, what seems to be the effective PV power out to the system is total charging current, even though Mains is on, the solar charger puts DC power on to the bus, and the Inverter takes it from there to produce mains AC. This does not really correspond with the daily PV power graph, that is the issue I have trying to figure out.

 

The BIG limitation with these types of Inverters is that the PV power can not be combined with the Mains, so generally PV is not even used unless you manage the loads carefully.

 

I see these Axpert type products primarily as a backup system, its functionality is limited compared to Victron architecture, which I have worked quite a lot with. If I can give some advice, besides lithium batteries, is stretch the finances and get a Victron Multiplus if you want to set up a versatile system.

 

What Victron can do is synchronise its Inverter generated AC with Mains and 'combine' accordingly. Solar Chargers also feed power onto the DC bus as needed, but this is all managed by the magic of the Venus controller via various signal buses.

 

I've not seen any regs here about Firemans switches (besides power supply to an outdoor sign) but what I have seen is totally dodgy electrical work by just about every other installer here in Jhb (for clients who are paying top$ btw), particularly bad when it comes to separating boards into mains powered and standby powered sections, ie generally not done even remotely properly according to acceptable practices and SANS 10142 codes. Mind you that's been very good business for me sorting all those gemorses out.

 

I normally install a 4 pole bypass switch at the sub db by the Inverter system, Mains in and Mains Out feeds, so the system can be completely bypassed if and when there is an issue.

Edited February 19, 2021 by kosmonooit

[Vetplant]

I've recently spent some time figuring out how those Axpert/Kodak/Synapse type inverters - solar chargers, picking up stompies at various sites after customers realise they have been over promised and under delivered,Recently been looking very closely at one system that was installed with the promise 'it does everything' but no one knew was was going on and the supplier got the boot after wanting to charge R5k to wash the PV panels. I set up a PC with that Watchpower software and remote access, so been coming to grips with how it works (or doesn't work)

 

So from what I can figure out in the modes Solar-Batter-Utility or Solar-Utility-Battery.

 

The load will be powered from the solar providing the load is less that the PV power input.

 

In SUB mode, the load will be switched back to mains when the load is more that the PV power, and the PV will charge the batteries. Battery power will be used when no mains/utility.

 

in SBU mode, the inverter will dip into the batteries reserve until the set voltage discharge level is reached, and then back to mains/Utility.

 

The BIG limitation is that the PV power can not be combined with the Mains, so generally PV is not even used unless you manage the loads carefully.

 

I see these Axpert type products primarily as a backup system, its functionality is limited compared to Victron architecture, which I have worked quite a lot with. If I can give some advice, besides lithium batteries, is stretch the finances and get a Victron Multiplus if you want to set up a versatile system..

 

I've not seen any regs here about Firemans switches (besides power supply to an outdoor sign) but what I have seen is totally dodgy electrical work by just about every other installer here in Jhb (for clients who are paying top$ btw), particularly bad when it comes to separating boards into mains powered and standby powered sections, ie generally not done even remotely properly according to acceptable practices and SANS 10142 codes. Mind you that's been good good business for me sorting all those gemorses out.

 

I normally install a 4 pole bypass switch at the sub db by the Inverter system, Mains in and Mains Out feeds, so thesystem can be completely bypassed if and when there is an issue.

Good info, thanks.

[Frosty]

So here’s what I have

Inverter and Battery same vertical line
between Inverter and DB (horizontal line):

• Fuses for Combiner box
• Kill Switch:
  • UP - Eskom feed which shuts off all power from battery/inverter/generator. If the grid is down then I have no power;
  • MIDDLE - Eskom and Inverter are both off;
  • DOWN is Inverter feeding back into main DB;
  • Isolator switch is like the mains isolator.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Frosty