New wheelset or new Sealed Bearing rear Hub? Pls help

[CheeseAndWineBiker]

I'm riding a Scott Scale 940 2020 edition. It has a Shimano FH-M400-B (loose bearings) Rear hub.

I've done about 2000km and went to a bike shop. The owner serviced the hub and after 5 rides, I felt that it wasn't smooth anymore.. Went to a different bike shop, the owner there said he would've never even serviced it and rather put on a new hub or perhaps look at a new wheelset as that will work out cheaper in the long run.

It makes me a bit angry as the first bike shop serviced it, possibly knowing it wouldn't last very long. Not going back there again.

So now I'm here and would like your opinion.. New SEALED BEARING hub & installation is going to cost me minimum 2k according the bike shop.. Or I can get a pair of new wheels, which I kinda like more because now both hubs are sealed bearings and I have more options for disc brake rotors?

I'd also like to know if the specific hub on these Stans wheels are compatible with Sram SX cassette?

https://bike-addict.co.za/collections/wheels/products/stans-arch-s1-29-110-148-oe-wheelset-1

Edited August 31, 2021 by CheeseAndWineBiker

[DieselnDust]

Argh you know so easy for one shop to blame another shop. Low cost hubs don’t last. Especially low cost cup and cone shimano hubs. They’re there to hit a price point. What is your budget for a new or second hand wheelset?

[droo]

What hub is it? 

 

Decent cup and cone hubs can last for years if you look after them. But once the cups start pitting you may as well replace them with sealed bearing. That said, at R 2k including the wheel build you're most likely not going to improve your life much at all.

[porqui]

Just a by the way - why did you not take it back to the 1st bike shop ???

 

Another by the way - you could probably ride it as is for a long while if you service it yourself. Not difficult and you do not need any expensive tools. This way you also get to know your bike a bit better. You could find that you enjoy it too.

Edited August 31, 2021 by porqui

[CheeseAndWineBiker]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Argh you know so easy for one shop to blame another shop. Low cost hubs don’t last. Especially low cost cup and cone shimano hubs. They’re there to hit a price point. What is your budget for a new or second hand wheelset?

I found that out the hard way yes.. I don't mind second hand stuff, but when it comes to the mountain biking second hand market, I'm always sceptical. Specially in this scenario where I can't really open up a hub when inspecting it. Those Stans wheels et that I've linked look pretty decent. So R6500 is probably my budget

[CheeseAndWineBiker]

1 hour ago, porqui said:

Just a by the way - why did you not take it back to the 1st bike shop ???

 

Another by the way - you could probably ride it as is for a long while if you service it yourself. Not difficult and you do not need any expensive tools. This way you also get to know your bike a bit better. You could find that you enjoy it too.

I actually did, just to meet the father of the owner there who was quite ignorant towards me, explaining to me that once those hubs start to give problems, it's basically irreparable. I wanted to question him why they serviced it, but he was clearly pissed off. 

Thanks for the info, I'm slowly starting to build up my personal toolset and I love working on my bike. 

Could you please perhaps give your opinion on the wheelset vs hub though? You sound like someone with experience :) 

[Alouette3]

Answer all depends on what rims are currently fitted and also what you would land up replacing rims or hub with and also in relation to what kind of riding you do.

Certain Stan's rims can be susceptible to cracking down the line.

If looked after correctly, cup and cone hubs can works just fine. I'm a little concerned that the 2nd bike shop said they would not even service them but just replace. Have they actually inspected the hubs and bearings before making this call?  Rough hubs good be poorly adjust bearing preload or not correctly locking the the nuts.

Cone spanners are a very cheap addition to the tool box.

[DieselnDust]

Cup and cone hubs last, when the the races an cones are hardened to prevent the need for continued readjustent. The Cheap Shimano hubs just don't have longevity built into them . Deore is about as low as I'd go. XTR or XT Cup and cone hubs are worth the investment.

Scale 940 likely has Syncros X-25 rims which are likely low end Alex Rims or maybe they're made by Syncros They're pretty heavy at around 50oodd gr /rim. Not really worth investing in other than perhaps a Novatec hub that will keep the wheels turning for a few more years

[Robbie Stewart]

I recently got a set of these for ~R6k

https://www.rapide.co.za/product/rapide-tr29-36-sl-wheelset/

Overall I'm happy so far. I had a bit of an issue with my rear rim cutting into the tyre sidewall, but nothing a bit of very light sanding on the offending sharp ridge at the rim joint could not sort out. i'm going to go out on a limb and say I got that 1/100 manufacture defect and that should not occur again likely. The rear hub also sound cracker on the trails. 

What I really like is the extra internal rim width - 36mm - which gives the 2.60" tyres a nice grippy footprint and allows riding lower pressures, making the already plush bike feel even more plush.

I was considering going DT Swiss, but the cost rapidly escalated and I was not really wanting to fork out more than I could comfortably spend at the time. I don't regret going with these.

If your budget is R6500 then these are a good option to consider - something I would do over buying second hand.

[Chadvdw67]

I would also recommend the Rapide rims, I had a set on a previous bike and they were really nice, I personally wouldn't go for the 36mm rims, the 30mm would be my choice

 

At R6k I think they will be hard to beat

[Me rida my bicycle]

14 hours ago, CheeseAndWineBiker said:

I'm riding a Scott Scale 940 2020 edition. It has a Shimano FH-M400-B (loose bearings) Rear hub.

I've done about 2000km and went to a bike shop. The owner serviced the hub and after 5 rides, I felt that it wasn't smooth anymore.. Went to a different bike shop, the owner there said he would've never even serviced it and rather put on a new hub or perhaps look at a new wheelset as that will work out cheaper in the long run.

It makes me a bit angry as the first bike shop serviced it, possibly knowing it wouldn't last very long. Not going back there again.

So now I'm here and would like your opinion.. New SEALED BEARING hub & installation is going to cost me minimum 2k according the bike shop.. Or I can get a pair of new wheels, which I kinda like more because now both hubs are sealed bearings and I have more options for disc brake rotors?

I'd also like to know if the specific hub on these Stans wheels are compatible with Sram SX cassette?

https://bike-addict.co.za/collections/wheels/products/stans-arch-s1-29-110-148-oe-wheelset-1

Those are nice wheels. The s1 range with the eyelids around the spokes don't crack like some of the mk3 stans rims do. 

Also if you have one of the newer 940 Scale's it should be carbon so a good wheelset will make a big difference. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Me rida my bicycle

[Robbie Stewart]

10 hours ago, Alouette3 said:

Answer all depends on what rims are currently fitted and also what you would land up replacing rims or hub with and also in relation to what kind of riding you do.

Certain Stan's rims can be susceptible to cracking down the line.

If looked after correctly, cup and cone hubs can works just fine. I'm a little concerned that the 2nd bike shop said they would not even service them but just replace. Have they actually inspected the hubs and bearings before making this call?  Rough hubs good be poorly adjust bearing preload or not correctly locking the the nuts.

Cone spanners are a very cheap addition to the tool box.

Funny this. I have a bike with a sticky rear freehub that keeps pushing the chain every now and then. LBS insists that I require a new freehub. Yet I have lately watched plenty YouTube videos on servicing a rear Shimano freehub and its easy to do at home. All I need are some cone spanners and grease and I'm sorted. I have assigned myself that project for the weekend.

Total cost to get the tools required and a new chain is in the region of around R900 - same as what I'm told a new freehub would cost - so for a minimal investment its time to start doing my own servicing and save tons of unnecessary LBS spend in future.

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Funny this. I have a bike with a sticky rear freehub that keeps pushing the chain every now and then. LBS insists that I require a new freehub. Yet I have lately watched plenty YouTube videos on servicing a rear Shimano freehub and its easy to do at home. All I need are some cone spanners and grease and I'm sorted. I have assigned myself that project for the weekend.

Total cost to get the tools required and a new chain is in the region of around R900 - same as what I'm told a new freehub would cost - so for a minimal investment its time to start doing my own servicing and save tons of unnecessary LBS spend in future.

just be really gentle with the seal on the back of the freehub. They're not replaceable and Morning Star Freehub Buddies have not been available since a number of years since Paul passed away. There's still some kits available on Ebay

[droo]

1 hour ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Funny this. I have a bike with a sticky rear freehub that keeps pushing the chain every now and then. LBS insists that I require a new freehub. Yet I have lately watched plenty YouTube videos on servicing a rear Shimano freehub and its easy to do at home. All I need are some cone spanners and grease and I'm sorted. I have assigned myself that project for the weekend.

Total cost to get the tools required and a new chain is in the region of around R900 - same as what I'm told a new freehub would cost - so for a minimal investment its time to start doing my own servicing and save tons of unnecessary LBS spend in future.

You're not going to service a Shimano freehub with cone spanners I'm afraid, you'll need a special tool to get in there. And it's a massive faff, and it's not guaranteed to work afterwards.

 

It'll probably be cheaper and easier to replace if you can find a compatible one.

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

just be really gentle with the seal on the back of the freehub. They're not replaceable and Morning Star Freehub Buddies have not been available since a number of years since Paul passed away. There's still some kits available on Ebay

 

1 hour ago, droo said:

You're not going to service a Shimano freehub with cone spanners I'm afraid, you'll need a special tool to get in there. And it's a massive faff, and it's not guaranteed to work afterwards.

 

It'll probably be cheaper and easier to replace if you can find a compatible one.

 

The freehub on my stationary HT is Shimano FH-M475 which is giving me some issues. As I replaced the wheelset on my full-sus I was considering using that wheel's freehub on the HT. Or would I be better of converting the thru-axle to QR to fit the HT? I want to use the HT for my mid week fitness improvement rides and won't be going anywhere near a trail since I have retired it from active trail duty.

And in the case I can do the QR conversion, what would I need to pull that off?

[CheeseAndWineBiker]

4 hours ago, Chadvdw67 said:

I would also recommend the Rapide rims, I had a set on a previous bike and they were really nice, I personally wouldn't go for the 36mm rims, the 30mm would be my choice

 

At R6k I think they will be hard to beat

Had a look now yes. The 36mm is out of stock anyway and my current rims are 25mm, so 30mm would be perfect then.

How long did they last / why did you upgrade?