nous sommes de la m$$$e à vélo *

[Shebeen]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:02 PM, Mountain Bru said:

As long as you don't confuse Slovenia and Slovakia, and start thinking that Sagan and Roglic are gonna be on the same team at the World Champs, you're ahead of half the cycling world ????

or if you knew that the Okolo Slovenska next week is actually in Slovakia https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/okolo-slovenska/2021/overview

[Brakepad]

On 9/6/2021 at 10:56 AM, Shebeen said:

Why are the French so crap at Grand tours?  *(my google translate in title)

The last french winner of the TdF is..Bernard hinault in 1985. Fignon won the giro in '89 and (an EPO fueled) Jalabert la Vuelta in '95. it's been 78 misses since a french rider was on the top step of a GT podium.

They have the biggest race, which they load with their own riders (and even try tailor it to their top stars on occasion). They regularly have more than double the amount of riders than the second most represented nation. - play here https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2021/gc/startlist/riders-per-nation

But that's probably not it, Italy load their riders even more so at the Giro, and Vuelta has a spanish lean (although more frenchies in '15 and '16 https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-a-espana/2015/startlist/riders-per-nation).

Sure there have been some second places, but a miss is as good as a mile here and the ones in recent memory seem nowhere close to that level. I don't see it happening for Bardet or Pinot in the future, and the next in line is hard to even identify. They have won other stuff, (but only 3 monuments this century)

Sure there have been some riders tearing themselves into pieces to stay in yellow, most notably Alaphilippe and Voeckler(twice), but they would have been shock winners in Paris.  In the other GTs, no french rider has worn the maglia rosa or the maillot rojo beyond the first rest day this century. 

Maybe they put too much focus on the TDF itself? Maybe they have too many medium budget teams and can't compete with the Ineos/Jumbo squads with superdoms?

I reckon the answer is not that difficult.  There is just SO much pressure on the next big thing to do it, that they just can't handle it - no one could. Once someone breaks this duck, the floodgates could open.

 

 

 

Can it be the testing? I have heard the french have one of the strictest tests and rules when it comes to doping . Statistics show Russia Italy and France have the highest numbers in Anti Doping Violations:
• Countries with the most anti-doping rule violations worldwide | Statista
so the more they test the more they catch ? 
When did an Italian win the TDF last except for 2014 Nibali

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, Brakepad said:

Can it be the testing? I have heard the french have one of the strictest tests and rules when it comes to doping . Statistics show Russia Italy and France have the highest numbers in Anti Doping Violations:
• Countries with the most anti-doping rule violations worldwide | Statista
so the more they test the more they catch ? 
When did an Italian win the TDF last except for 2014 Nibali

Pantani '97..... Do you even cycling? ????

[Brakepad]

14 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Pantani '97..... Do you even cycling? ????

wow,wow,wow
Pantani, sorry he slipped my mind completely for some reason, what a climber what a tragedy
But "do you even cycling"????????????
Pantani was '98 Ullrich was '97 

[Jewbacca]

9 minutes ago, Brakepad said:

wow,wow,wow
Pantani, sorry he slipped my mind completely for some reason, what a climber what a tragedy
But "do you even cycling"????????????
Pantani was '98 Ullrich was '97 

hahahahaha yes... sorry. I was jesting but getting 97 and 98 mixed up in my mind is unforgiveable! ????

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

Perhaps the real question is, does it really matter what country a yellow jersey rider is from?

In my opinion the idea of nationality in Profesional sport is somewhat outdated. A Profesional sports team, regardless of the sporting code, is made up of people from various countries, not only the athletes, but coaches, doctors, management etc etc. 

Teams recruit riders that fit into their structure and "gameplan" or vision, as well as their budget and then play to their strengths. So this obsession with nationality has always been a bit of a funny quirk to me.

.

.

.

.

*that said  there is obviously something to be said for national bodies and the support/platform they provide to young athletes coming up through the ranks, and that will obviously have a meaningful impact on representation once those athletes enter the Profesional realm. But my point remains, beyond the olympics/commonwealth games/world Champs (which are all officially "amateur" events), why should nationality matter?  At Profesional level, it's is all business. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by DonatelloOnPinarello

[porqui]

The French are just going downhill !!!

[Shebeen]

12 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Perhaps the real question is, does it really matter what country a yellow jersey rider is from?

In my opinion the idea of nationality in Profesional sport is somewhat outdated. A Profesional sports team, regardless of the sporting code, is made up of people from various countries, not only the athletes, but coaches, doctors, management etc etc. 

Teams recruit riders that fit into their structure and "gameplan" or vision, as well as their budget and then play to their strengths. So this obsession with nationality has always been a bit of a funny quirk to me.

..

*that said  there is obviously something to be said for national bodies and the support/platform they provide to young athletes coming up through the ranks, and that will obviously have a meaningful impact on representation once those athletes enter the Profesional realm. But my point remains, beyond the olympics/commonwealth games/world Champs (which are all officially "amateur" events), why should nationality matter?  At Profesional level, it's is all business. 

ja it does. Brad Wiggins was the first Brit to win the TdF. he got knighted that year, even though he might not even have been the best rider on the team. Froome has won 4 now and is still just an OBE. some might say that wiggo had olympic success too, but there's no doubt that his TdF win is the cherry. 

 

For France it VERY much matters. With JC Peraud swapping to skinny tyres and going fast then also Pinot/Bardet on the podium the local expectation was up. That generation seems to have missed the boat, probably no bigger sign of that was Bardet drilling himself at the head of the peleton with 20kms to go unsuccessfully trying to bring back a break at La Vuelta last week. Of course he no longer even rides for a french team.

At TdF there are some very french teams. In the last ten years one masisvely funded british team has swept all before 2 well funded french teams and 3/4 bit players. maybe the reosurces are just spread too far.

You don't have to believe me in the weight of the expectation, click on these links

 

 

 

[Jewbacca]

I agree. It definitely matters..... If you are French.

Imagine if we went 35 years without a South African winning the Argust!!

At least they haven't created a whole new Category and introduced a red jersey for the top French team/rider....... ????

[Thomo]

I'm sure a certain Lance would be more than willing to come on board to help French cycling .... 

[MORNE]

it's like Renault being at the forefront and holding the sport ransom pre 2013 - pushing for hybrid v6 tech to be implemented in Formula 1...Or they said they would quit.

It is now widely considered amongst purists one of the dumbest things the sport could have ever done. And Renault....They till this day remain the worst equipped manufacturer in the sport. Even Honda that came in late and were years behind in R&D caught and surpassed them.

The french are too emotional to be the best at anything???? 

 

[DieselnDust]

19 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ja it does. Brad Wiggins was the first Brit to win the TdF. he got knighted that year, even though he might not even have been the best rider on the team. Froome has won 4 now and is still just an OBE. some might say that wiggo had olympic success too, but there's no doubt that his TdF win is the cherry. 

 

For France it VERY much matters. With JC Peraud swapping to skinny tyres and going fast then also Pinot/Bardet on the podium the local expectation was up. That generation seems to have missed the boat, probably no bigger sign of that was Bardet drilling himself at the head of the peleton with 20kms to go unsuccessfully trying to bring back a break at La Vuelta last week. Of course he no longer even rides for a french team.

At TdF there are some very french teams. In the last ten years one masisvely funded british team has swept all before 2 well funded french teams and 3/4 bit players. maybe the reosurces are just spread too far.

You don't have to believe me in the weight of the expectation, click on these links

 

 

 

 

 

 

strangely none of those articles are written in French.....

seems its more a weight of expectation placed on France by English speaking journalists?

[Mountain Bru]

3 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

At least they haven't created a whole new Category and introduced a red jersey for the top French team/rider....... ????

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm actually genuinely surprised it doesn't already exist

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

This wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm actually genuinely surprised it doesn't already exist

One could say, it would be EPIC.........

[Mountain Bru]

3 hours ago, MORNE said:

The french are too emotional to be the best at anything???? 

 

Shots fired!

But I think this is actually a big factor in winning a 3 week GT. If you look at recent GT winners like Froome, Pogacar, Bernal and Roglic (who are probably the best GC riders of the last 5 years), they all have a kind of stoic temperament and are these kind of quiet, super focused kind of guys. Obviously they all have a relaxed mode too, but when it comes to the way they race and the way they approach GTs, they're all super focused and race very clinically. Very few flashy attacks, almost very little panache, but very calculated. You never see them being overly emotional in interviews, never see them throwing their hands up and getting frustrated during stages, it's like you never see them out of control. I feel like the most emotion I've ever seen Froome show in a stage was looking flustered running up Ventoux, and maybe when he punched a spectator or 2 that were running next to him. 

If you contrast that with the recent top French riders:
Jala - Probably the most flashy rider in the pelo, maximum panache, rides on feeling, amazing to watch and in 1 day races. Wears a $120k watch during races.
Pinot - Man looks like every GT is a constant emotional rollercoaster for him. 
Bardet - Probably the best of the bunch, but still seems to be emotional from time to time. 
Barguil - Seems to be a hot head. Was kicked off sunweb for not listening to DS. 

I think in the modern era where everything is so calculated and professional and when the margins of winning are so small, there's no room for flashy riding or allowing your emotions to get out of hand, and that doesn't suite the French riders. 

[MORNE]

55 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Shots fired!

But I think this is actually a big factor in winning a 3 week GT. If you look at recent GT winners like Froome, Pogacar, Bernal and Roglic (who are probably the best GC riders of the last 5 years), they all have a kind of stoic temperament and are these kind of quiet, super focused kind of guys. Obviously they all have a relaxed mode too, but when it comes to the way they race and the way they approach GTs, they're all super focused and race very clinically. Very few flashy attacks, almost very little panache, but very calculated. You never see them being overly emotional in interviews, never see them throwing their hands up and getting frustrated during stages, it's like you never see them out of control. I feel like the most emotion I've ever seen Froome show in a stage was looking flustered running up Ventoux, and maybe when he punched a spectator or 2 that were running next to him. 

If you contrast that with the recent top French riders:
Jala - Probably the most flashy rider in the pelo, maximum panache, rides on feeling, amazing to watch and in 1 day races. Wears a $120k watch during races.
Pinot - Man looks like every GT is a constant emotional rollercoaster for him. 
Bardet - Probably the best of the bunch, but still seems to be emotional from time to time. 
Barguil - Seems to be a hot head. Was kicked off sunweb for not listening to DS. 

I think in the modern era where everything is so calculated and professional and when the margins of winning are so small, there's no room for flashy riding or allowing your emotions to get out of hand, and that doesn't suite the French riders. 

Call me Jon Snow when it comes to things like this.

I meant to write that in comic sans italic. haha. The shots were blanks????

But yes, cross referencing their sporting temperament in my frame of reference...they are usually not the supremely focused/well oiled machines of their counterparts, not even the italians.