Tour de France 2024

[splat]

3 minutes ago, love2fly said:

They were able to achieve 6.8 long ago....in around 2000 on LA's bike they had to take out some titanium bolts and replace with steel bolts to come up to weight....often a mass production bike will have some forgiveness in the layup for a more comfy ride which they may dial out, or change fork layup slightly to make the steering more direct etc...

Yes, I remember things like that. Cannondale had that Six13, which they played games with and I recall one rider having a spanner drilled and bolted under his bottle cage to make the 6.8kg limit.

What I meant with my question is that the 6.8kg weigh limit used to be a bit of an obsession years ago, and seems like less of an issue now. Or is it because its so easily achievable, it isn't a 'thing' anymore ?

[Mongoose!]

6 minutes ago, splat said:

What I meant with my question is that the 6.8kg weigh limit used to be a bit of an obsession years ago, and seems like less of an issue now. Or is it because its so easily achievable, it isn't a 'thing' anymore ?

very achievable yes.😜

 

 

[The Ouzo]

20 minutes ago, splat said:

Yes, I remember things like that. Cannondale had that Six13, which they played games with and I recall one rider having a spanner drilled and bolted under his bottle cage to make the 6.8kg limit.

What I meant with my question is that the 6.8kg weigh limit used to be a bit of an obsession years ago, and seems like less of an issue now. Or is it because its so easily achievable, it isn't a 'thing' anymore ?

I think they've realised that at the current level of bike weights, more aero trumps marginal weight advantage.

[DieselnDust]

10 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

I think they've realised that at the current level of bike weights, more aero trumps marginal weight advantage.

Bike weight limit is a safety rule. Some pro bikes are made lighter and artificially brought up to the limit. They achieve by skimping on material hence they break so easily. Joe public’s bike frame is a good few 100grsm heavier. 
it’s been discussed here previously and also confirmed in a few vlogs on YT and other media by guys like Leuscherteknic and chinacycles. The reduced material also brings the material and labour cost down and riders don’t want to give away 100grams to their competitors so the emphasis is still on weight , bike and rider combined kit just bike anymore. The obsession is still there it’s just more subtle  now

[wattnow]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

Bike weight limit is a safety rule. Some pro bikes are made lighter and artificially brought up to the limit. They achieve by skimping on material hence they break so easily. Joe public’s bike frame is a good few 100grsm heavier. 
it’s been discussed here previously and also confirmed in a few vlogs on YT and other media by guys like Leuscherteknic and chinacycles. The reduced material also brings the material and labour cost down and riders don’t want to give away 100grams to their competitors so the emphasis is still on weight , bike and rider combined kit just bike anymore. The obsession is still there it’s just more subtle  now

That 6.8kg weight limit I believe is a little dated. Looking at how far components and wheels have come (the majority of a bikes weight) have come I believe they could safely bring bring down the weight a few hundrend grams. The aero, disk brake bikes have struggled to get to the all important 6.8kg hence why I dont think they chase it as they used to in the past.

Drop the weight limit to 6kg and I think we would see a very interesting shake up in the industry! Tell me JV wouldnt want a 6kg bike up these mountains in this years tour.

[Jewbacca]

They were saying that some (many) of the Aero bikes in the peleton were around the 7kg mark 

I think there is less of an obsession around the 6.8kg mark as suggested. 

As mentioned above, the advancements in carbon layup/material and strength has left some of the UCI bike rules redundant. There is also a limit to chainstay/Seatstay thickness which has apparently been rubbished with modern materials.

But ja, I'd agree that bike weight is 'less important' than it used to be in the way that some riders/teams are happy to ride 7kg bikes and not painfully strip it to make it 6.8kg

 

[DieselnDust]

Carbon fibre advancements are hugely overstated. The basic fabric is pretty much the same PAN fibres that were around 20years ago. Resins have improved and finite element modelling has improved. Achieving almost void free layups has improved but carbon remains as brittle in the transverse direction as it always was. 
the bike we buy at 7.8 kg with docs brakes is a sun 6.8kg professionals bike made with less fibre and resin. How easily these fail in a crash is testimony to the uci rule still being very much applicable. If the pros were in production bikes I doubt we’d see as many failures. It would cost them too much in warranties as many >28bmi blokes would be breaking them 

the marketing will tell you otherwise . However the fact that you can’t buy a 6.8kg disc brake road bike is quite revealing to where carbon fibre is still limited 

anyway my humble little opinion

[Jewbacca]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Carbon fibre advancements are hugely overstated. The basic fabric is pretty much the same PAN fibres that were around 20years ago. Resins have improved and finite element modelling has improved. Achieving almost void free layups has improved but carbon remains as brittle in the transverse direction as it always was. 
the bike we buy at 7.8 kg with docs brakes is a sun 6.8kg professionals bike made with less fibre and resin. How easily these fail in a crash is testimony to the uci rule still being very much applicable. If the pros were in production bikes I doubt we’d see as many failures. It would cost them too much in warranties as many >28bmi blokes would be breaking them 

the marketing will tell you otherwise . However the fact that you can’t buy a 6.8kg disc brake road bike is quite revealing to where carbon fibre is still limited 

anyway my humble little opinion

I don't think anyone is disputing that part of the equation. It's not 100% true but true enough.

The question is over the 6.8kg obsession, ie, getting ALL bikes to weigh 6.8kg.

They evidently don't these days as some of the bikes are currently documented as being over 7kg

[love2fly]

Seeing how easily guys can build a 6.8k bike I don't think any tdf bikes weigh over 7. Leaving out a carbon patch here and there and it's resin won't save much....afaik the reason my Supersix Evo Stealth doesn't have clearcoat is to save 19g.....and it added about 5k to the price at the time...

Edited July 11, 2023 by love2fly

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't think anyone is disputing that part of the equation. It's not 100% true but true enough.

The question is over the 6.8kg obsession, ie, getting ALL bikes to weigh 6.8kg.

They evidently don't these days as some of the bikes are currently documented as being over 7kg

ok i see where you're going and yes perhaps some riders are less obsessive about bike weight. I don't have the information to split these guys up into climbers, rouleurs etc but Il try and see what I can find and put a little sheet together that could lead the discussion a bit better 

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, love2fly said:

Seeing how easily guys can build a 6.8k bike I don't think any tdf bikes weigh over 7. Leaving out a carbon patch here and there and it's resin won't save much....afaik the reason my Supersix Evo Stealth doesn't have clearcoat is to save 19g.....and it added about 5k to the price at the time...

I have seen a few bike checks and the commentators have mentioned some bikes weighing in at 7kg ish plus or minus some change.

So there are definitely bikes in the TDF weighing over 7kg

 

[mikkelz]

4 hours ago, love2fly said:

Seeing how easily guys can build a 6.8k bike I don't think any tdf bikes weigh over 7. Leaving out a carbon patch here and there and it's resin won't save much....afaik the reason my Supersix Evo Stealth doesn't have clearcoat is to save 19g.....and it added about 5k to the price at the time...

Loads over 7kgs: https://youtu.be/hw-_D8nwd9s

[love2fly]

45 minutes ago, mikkelz said:

Loads over 7kgs: https://youtu.be/hw-_D8nwd9s

How many weighed on camera, without bottles? Pure climbers bikes and on the start line of a massive climbing stage? There's a reason you sometimes get bike changes mid stage...Contador loved doing that. These guys leave nothing to chance. I can get my bike below 6.8 and have no fear breaking anything. 

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, love2fly said:

How many weighed on camera, without bottles? Pure climbers bikes and on the start line of a massive climbing stage? There's a reason you sometimes get bike changes mid stage...Contador loved doing that. These guys leave nothing to chance. I can get my bike below 6.8 and have no fear breaking anything. 

There are obviously some bikes right on the 6.8kg mark.

Again, not the point. Back in the day teams drilled holes in their cranks and used dental floss for spokes to get the bike to 6.8kg

Nowadays guys are happy to race 'heavier' bikes due to gains elsewhere and the realisation/acceptance that Cav will still suck over the mountains regardless of 200 to 400g of bike weight but has better aero gains in the valleys on the aero bike and saves more time there than trying to force it. 

The science of marginal gains and where to apply them has exceeded a simple bike weight calculation these days.

But my wafflewaffle aside, don't believe the published articles, commentators, mechanics, riders and bike checks.... They are all lying 😜

[OVERDRIVE]

Fabio Jakobsen confirms Soudal-QuickStep exit for 2024 | Cyclingnews

Odd, thought he was happy. 

[Shebeen]

8 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

There are obviously some bikes right on the 6.8kg mark.

Again, not the point. Back in the day teams drilled holes in their cranks and used dental floss for spokes to get the bike to 6.8kg

Nowadays guys are happy to race 'heavier' bikes due to gains elsewhere and the realisation/acceptance that Cav will still suck over the mountains regardless of 200 to 400g of bike weight but has better aero gains in the valleys on the aero bike and saves more time there than trying to force it. 

The science of marginal gains and where to apply them has exceeded a simple bike weight calculation these days.

But my wafflewaffle aside, don't believe the published articles, commentators, mechanics, riders and bike checks.... They are all lying 😜

One would think the bike industry marketing would have resulted in every bike being bang on 6.8 right now.

Clearly being within 500gr is fine. Think the mechanics must be grateful too, imagine having all bikes right on the limit (or below with corrector weights) and then needing to check everyday just incase you redid bar tape and might have skimped 20g? I guess it's dsq if you are under?