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EPO/GH/etc no problem find it here.


The_Doctor

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I have a number of facets to my life' date=' my work, my home life, my social life and lately my sporting interests again.

[/Quote']

 

Ermm that sounds really obvious ... like everyone else doesn't Embarrassed
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Two things:

 

I read in the "RunnersWorld" mag that in a survey, at the last Olimpics, when athletes were asked if they would like to win gold but die in 5 year's time, 50% answered "YES". So half the top athletes are willing to use "something" that will help them win even if it kills them.

 

Now secondly. A new product range on the market (made in Finnland?), can give you "full recovery after intense exercise within 8 hours" and a second bottle will raise your hematocrit by '' up to 50% '', this is all achieved naturally and the contents of the entire range is 100% "legal''.

 

Interested?

 

At what price?

 

 
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...

Doping in our sport is a big issue and very pertinent to this forum. On this forum we have a self confessed supplier / dealer of PED's to local athletes whom you are advocating should be allowed to get on in peace. That is wrong IMO and he should be made accountable. If keeping threads like this alive will help in any way then I will keep supporting that.

 

 

You have it quite right. There is truth in the saying Knowledge is Power. We cannot profess to love this sport and then prepared to, as you say, stick our heads in the sand. We owe it to ouselves and to our sport to educate ourselves about this. To keep up the debate if you can call it that, untill something constructive is done to rid the sport of the cheats.

 

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Two things:

 

I read in the "RunnersWorld" mag that in a survey' date=' at the last Olimpics, when athletes were asked if they would like to win gold but die in 5 year's time, 50% answered "YES". So half the top athletes are willing to use "something" that will help them win even if it kills them.

 
[/quote']

 

That is exactly why there are processes which govern what products are  legal and illegal and how and where they may be used - to prevent people making decisions that they would regret later.

 

 

Now secondly. A new product range on the market (made in Finnland?)' date=' can give you "full recovery after intense exercise within 8 hours" and a second bottle will raise your hematocrit by '' up to 50% '', this is all achieved naturally and the contents of the entire range is 100% "legal''.

 

Interested?

 

At what price?

 

 

[/Quote']

 

This is my opinion - If it is not harmful when taken under the pressures of intense athletic activity then it would probably remain legal/unbanned and usage would not constitute cheating. BUT if it were banned (after due & reasonable consideration by the sporting bodies) then to use it ould be cheating and it doesn't matter what it is!
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Guest colonel

WindBreaker: I agree with alot of what you say and see your point, but it will boil down to the fact that even if Chunky is caught and "exiled" to say htere is another person aiting to take his place and Pro riders WILL look for that advantage over the next guy cause that is what they are being paid to do-Win races and if they dont win they dont get paid and 99% of them are on 1yr contracts so nothing is a given for the following year and how long have they got to perform at the highest level? Maybe 8-10yrs if they get it right and I dont see them retiring and not haveing to work again cause of what they earned during racing in South Africa and I think its a shame to be honest.

I personally dont believe for 1 minute that here on this forum that Chunky or any Pro rider will stop dopeing cause "We" dont agree with it. My main arguement is that everyone here makes a big noise but nothing gets taken further once they finished typing their post.

 

BikeMax: It has alot to do with the post of Nigerian drug dealers they both pedal illegal substances in similiar forms. Yes I know its a cycling forum but I would think that the Nigerian issue is alot worse than some rider needing to earn a living on a bike doing what he loves. They will never ever get rid of drugs in sport no matter what they do and do you know what the biggest positive test in sport is? Its Golf not cycling but the golfers dont get tested as often as cyclist so its not always headline news. Imagine that Tiger, Ernie, VJ all doped up!

Im not burying my head either cause Im not the one making claims to flushing out the rubbish like everyone but then nothing goes further than some name calling on the Hub and Im not saying let it get on in peace, I dont agree on it and if it came to a point where I had to use those products to keep up then I would realise that cycling is not my thing to give me fame and recognition.

I can also enter any topic and post what I feel is on my mind that is what Forums are for so by you telling me what to and where I can post is the same as me telling you to stop the discussion. Set Chunky up on camera or something and send his Chunky ass away but I dont see him stopping doing hat he is doing cause of the crap he gets on this forum it is only giving him publicity to those on the forum that are thinking of doping.

 

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WindBreaker: I agree with alot of what you say and see your point' date=' but it will boil down to the fact that even if Chunky is caught and "exiled" to say htere is another person aiting to take his place and Pro riders WILL look for that advantage over the next guy cause that is what they are being paid to do-Win races and if they dont win they dont get paid and 99% of them are on 1yr contracts so nothing is a given for the following year and how long have they got to perform at the highest level? Maybe 8-10yrs if they get it right and I dont see them retiring and not haveing to work again cause of what they earned during racing in South Africa and I think its a shame to be honest.

I personally dont believe for 1 minute that here on this forum that Chunky or any Pro rider will stop dopeing cause "We" dont agree with it. My main arguement is that everyone here makes a big noise but nothing gets taken further once they finished typing their post.

 

BikeMax: It has alot to do with the post of Nigerian drug dealers they both pedal illegal substances in similiar forms. Yes I know its a cycling forum but I would think that the Nigerian issue is alot worse than some rider needing to earn a living on a bike doing what he loves. They will never ever get rid of drugs in sport no matter what they do and do you know what the biggest positive test in sport is? Its Golf not cycling but the golfers dont get tested as often as cyclist so its not always headline news. Imagine that Tiger, Ernie, VJ all doped up!

Im not burying my head either cause Im not the one making claims to flushing out the rubbish like everyone but then nothing goes further than some name calling on the Hub and Im not saying let it get on in peace, I dont agree on it and if it came to a point where I had to use those products to keep up then I would realise that cycling is not my thing to give me fame and recognition.

I can also enter any topic and post what I feel is on my mind that is what Forums are for so by you telling me what to and where I can post is the same as me telling you to stop the discussion. Set Chunky up on camera or something and send his Chunky ass away but I dont see him stopping doing hat he is doing cause of the crap he gets on this forum it is only giving him publicity to those on the forum that are thinking of doping.

 

[/quote']

 

Colonel - whatever you do or do not think about the "Nigerian" issue - it has nothing to do with cycling - Chunky does.

 

Whilst it may frustrate you that we are not able to do more than "raise the issue" I would suggest that raising it and discussing it is better than saying "nothing is going to change so don't bother" - I would rather take a more positive approach as I believe it will change. I am sure that the earlier posts on this forum contributed to the Carte Blanche show being made - and this in turn helped further expose Chunky for what he is and may have discouraged other youngsters (or pro's) from going down that route

 

I am in no way trying to stop you posting or expressing your opinions - but what I am saying is that rather than get frustrated at various Hubbers having a debate that you think will get nowhere and telling them that they are wasting there time - you could always choose to avoid the thread and save yourself that frustration.

 

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I think we should get the big name sponsors, athletes and government together and make the penalty for drug use a LIFETIME BAN from ANY SPORT.

 

That way a track&field athlete can't hop over to Rugby to serve his 2 year ban and then back to T&F. Or a pro cyclist going for a 2 year stint in triathlon and then back to cycling.

 

If you're caught cheating at any sport you should be banned from ALL sport.

 

This may seem harsh but it's the only way to stop what's going on. 
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Whilst it may frustrate you that we are not able to do more than "raise the issue" I would suggest that raising it and discussing it is better than saying "nothing is going to change so don't bother" - I would rather take a more positive approach as I believe it will change. I am sure that the earlier posts on this forum contributed to the Carte Blanche show being made - and this in turn helped further expose Chunky for what he is and may have discouraged other youngsters (or pro's) from going down that route

 

 

ClapThat is what it takes. You need to know what is happening, and get it in the open. I agree that Carte Blanche esposing it will have made some people and parents re-evaluate their choices. For me it is important cause I want to be in a position to help my kids make the right choices when they get passionate about sport (or life) one day.

 

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Colonel, I was quite pleasantly surprised when Chunky was caught lying on national TV because that then raised the profile of the problem. The Minister of Sport is now aware of it, SARS will be looking at it etc. None of that would have happened if there wasn't such a fuss made here by the likes of Manbat and Gift to start with. It escalated from here - so you are wrong that debating on this forum makes no difference. You have to start somewhere. If we now let it all die down and don't challenge Chunky the minute that he tries to start his insinuations and justification crap again then the gains that were made will be lost.

 

The biggest problem is that so many of us condone it. Doping is ILLEGAL, IMMORAL, DANGEROUS and just plain wrong. Let's not try to detract from that by taking the attitude

a) Everyone does it anyway so it can't the that wrong

b) It won't go away so let it be.

 
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I think we should get the big name sponsors' date=' athletes and government together and make the penalty for drug use a LIFETIME BAN from ANY SPORT.

 

That way a track&field athlete can't hop over to Rugby to serve his 2 year ban and then back to T&F. Or a pro cyclist going for a 2 year stint in triathlon and then back to cycling.

 

If you're caught cheating at any sport you should be banned from ALL sport.

 

This may seem harsh but it's the only way to stop what's going on. 
[/quote']

 

The problem is not with the punishments meted out. We all are aware that plenty of athletes in all sports are doping and not being caught, or being caught and let off on some legal issue. The key is to highlight the issues and get athletes to make better more informed decisions

 

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The problem is not with the punishments meted out. We all are aware that plenty of athletes in all sports are doping and not being caught' date=' or being caught and let off on some legal issue. The key is to highlight the issues and get athletes to make better more informed decisions
[/quote']

Probably a balance of both. Life bans would definitely make more than a few Pro's consider that they are risking their income. And if they were in a society/community that scorned the use of PPED's they would be much more hesitant to arrive at the point of making that decision in the first place. You will always have cheats and social deviants everywhere but we can ostracise them.
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Probably a balance of both. Life bans would definitely make more than a few Pro's consider that they are risking their income. And if they were in a society/community that scorned the use of PPED's they would be much more hesitant to arrive at the point of making that decision in the first place. You will always have cheats and social deviants everywhere but we can ostracise them.

 

Fair point. Stricter sentences will deter some, and public opinion will deter others, but some athletes will take bob martins if they make them ride faster.

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Fair point. Stricter sentences will deter some' date=' and public opinion will deter others, but some athletes will take bob martins if they make them ride faster.[/quote']

 

Hey, don't knock Bob Martins, I remeber that in basics a lot of the guys swore by them as being the best multi-vits around. I can't remember if any of them avoiding colds & sniffles better than the rest of us though ...
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