Frozen Toes

[Barry]

27 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

thanks for the offer.

Will try a few "hacks" first and take it from there.

If the hacks don't  work I also have some odd fluffy lined sock thingies you can have and try they go in your shoe never used them. Size large

[Robbie Stewart]

Come live in the Cape . . .

I have yet to ride an early morning ride that is so cold my toes freeze. And I ride from around 5:30 am at least 3 times a week. 

I just wear one pair of socks and my feet are peachy every ride. 

[The Ouzo]

58 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Come live in the Cape . . .

I have yet to ride an early morning ride that is so cold my toes freeze. And I ride from around 5:30 am at least 3 times a week. 

I just wear one pair of socks and my feet are peachy every ride. 

The problem is, you larnie guys in Cape Town get the beautiful snow and rains and only send the wind up to us, by the time is gets through the karroo and free state everything but the bone chilling cold has been stripped from it. 
 

Oh and by 5:30 I’m almost done with my ride, you capies always wake up so late 😄

[Robbie Stewart]

3 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

Oh and by 5:30 I’m almost done with my ride, you capies always wake up so late

It's all the good wine we have down here, you see. It makes us sleep longer. But then also, by the time the sun starts to peek over the mountains in the east down here in Slaap Stad, you Vaalies have been sitting in traffic for quite some time moaning about the glare of the morning sun in your eyes on the way to drop the kids at school. 😁

[dave303e]

16 hours ago, Mongoose! said:

aero or non-aero ?

https://reefshop.co.za/products/reef-flipper-socks?variant=7339424645&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwjqWzBhAqEiwAQmtgT3H6zWN-wLQgAcOn62OevsuTzD3OY5DmqosVmLXJL-GPr5rMtcEkeRoCsCoQAvD_BwE

 

the dirt cheap definitely not cycle branded ones. We did an Adventure race in Scotland, the first night we paddled a loch and then down through to the sea. Anyway I had them on for that and then just ended up wearing them for the rest of the race as the temps were cold and it rained every 12 hours for the whole 5 days. But it saved me on the bike a few times.

[madmarc]

22 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

Yesterday my toes were aching from the cold, so this morning I put little plastic bags over my socks before putting my feet in my shoes. This worked great for a while, but then my feet started to sweat and the sweat had nowhere to go, the sweat then got cold and my toes got cold again. Not nearly as bad as yesterday but not ideal. Especially seeing as though the temps did not drop below 3deg this morning.

 

Other than buying booties, what other options can I experiment with ?

I'm going to try the 2 pairs of socks option next.

When we did the very wet and cold TB, while researching decent gloves that would keep our hands warm. Came across an article where riders in cold countries were using surgical gloves under their winter gloves. I really couldnt understand how thin rubber could keep your hands warm.

Diving deeper down the rabbit hole its the science of creating a vapour block and how that vapour keeps your body warm - A company that manufctures clothing for arctic expeditions uses the same principle.

So here is a summary of how i understand it works

The rubber gloves ( we used those blue neoprene gloves that you see mechanics using - got them from Builders) create a seal which doesnt allow the sweat or moisture escape

The moisture forms a layer between the glove and your skin

The moisture will stay at your body tempreture as long as you keep external cold from getting to the outside surface of the rubber glove. This is what the vapour block is.

The sweat inside the glove feels a bit strange in the beginning but you soon get used to it and dont think about it after 20 or 30 minutes

So over your surgical glove you pull on a winter glove (We used those long finger runners fleece gloves as the 2nd layer) We also pulled on normal winter gloves over the runners glove - But this constricted our fingers a fair amount and ditched them after 20km's

The other trick is to ensure the outer gloves dont get wet - We managed to get thin water proof mittens for this and wore them when it was raining. 

The warmest part of our bodies were our hands - I was actually very impressed how well this worked.

I think your mistake was the plastic bags over the socks - Sweat built up in the socks and the plastic bags were getting the cold which cooled down the sweat (vapour barrier) and put your toes back in the fridge.

I would try the plastic bags first and then the socks - I'm sure that would work - Also a good idea to tape closed the vents in your shoes.

We should have done the same with our feet with the rubber gloves pulled over our toes before we put on our socks - But we had already spent lots of money on neoprene booties which worked fine.

[Jensie]

For what its worth, my Anatomic toe covers still goes strong after 5years. I have patched the bottom with Wondafix for extra durability. Think it will last another two winters.
Oh and in really cold mornings I do the winter socks, toe cover and then the winter booty. My feet gets extra cold and this helps, fingers not so much as only a liner and decathlon gloves is enough.

Edited June 13 by Jensie

[The Ouzo]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:40 AM, madmarc said:

When we did the very wet and cold TB, while researching decent gloves that would keep our hands warm. Came across an article where riders in cold countries were using surgical gloves under their winter gloves. I really couldnt understand how thin rubber could keep your hands warm.

Diving deeper down the rabbit hole its the science of creating a vapour block and how that vapour keeps your body warm - A company that manufctures clothing for arctic expeditions uses the same principle.

So here is a summary of how i understand it works

The rubber gloves ( we used those blue neoprene gloves that you see mechanics using - got them from Builders) create a seal which doesnt allow the sweat or moisture escape

The moisture forms a layer between the glove and your skin

The moisture will stay at your body tempreture as long as you keep external cold from getting to the outside surface of the rubber glove. This is what the vapour block is.

The sweat inside the glove feels a bit strange in the beginning but you soon get used to it and dont think about it after 20 or 30 minutes

So over your surgical glove you pull on a winter glove (We used those long finger runners fleece gloves as the 2nd layer) We also pulled on normal winter gloves over the runners glove - But this constricted our fingers a fair amount and ditched them after 20km's

The other trick is to ensure the outer gloves dont get wet - We managed to get thin water proof mittens for this and wore them when it was raining. 

The warmest part of our bodies were our hands - I was actually very impressed how well this worked.

I think your mistake was the plastic bags over the socks - Sweat built up in the socks and the plastic bags were getting the cold which cooled down the sweat (vapour barrier) and put your toes back in the fridge.

I would try the plastic bags first and then the socks - I'm sure that would work - Also a good idea to tape closed the vents in your shoes.

We should have done the same with our feet with the rubber gloves pulled over our toes before we put on our socks - But we had already spent lots of money on neoprene booties which worked fine.

I've tried the surgical gloves under normal gloves, on a short 17km ride, got to work and poured the sweat out the surgical gloves like it was coming out a cup. And then my fingers were also doing that wrinkly thing they do when you've been in water for to long.

[JacquesJ]

1 hour ago, The Ouzo said:

I've tried the surgical gloves under normal gloves, on a short 17km ride, got to work and poured the sweat out the surgical gloves like it was coming out a cup. And then my fingers were also doing that wrinkly thing they do when you've been in water for to long.

I also used surgical gloves for a while, but the sweat wasnt ideal and one cold morning I rode with just one (running late, couldn't find stuff in the rush...) and there was no diff between the two hands. 

Got this since and it seems to work a bit better - for me at least. YMMV

https://www.firstascent.co.za/thermal-liner-glove

[SwissVan]

On 6/12/2024 at 1:11 PM, mecheng89 said:

You don't find the non-breathability to make you sweat a lot in your shoes, like an uncomfrtable feeling?

No can’t say I noticed anything like this, I typically sweat a lot and would say my feet are no worse than a normal ride. 

When I do this it’s for rides longer than what I like to do on the IDT, which produces more sweat than anything outdoors in winter 😂

[Baracuda]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:55 AM, guidodg said:

Cold feet are very difficult to manage...wearing 2 pairs of socks makes NO difference and just makes your shoes tighter, impedes your circulation and makes your feet freeze.

Booties help but ideally you want some nice warm merino wool socks or similar which keep your feet dry and toasty.

Winter boots are also good but cumbersome and expensive..and if you do get them make sure they are not too tight. They are also waterproof and generally will make your feet sweat.

Keeping your core nice and warm also helps and prevents blood leaving the extremities.

Tin foil on the insoles to radiate heat inwards can help.

There is no ultimate solution, you really have to experiment

I lived in Italy for 10 years and rode in sub-freezing temps regularly, got chilblains on my feet a few times...

 

 

When trekking in Nepal I was initially wearing 2-3 pairs of socks to keep my feet warm, but they were freezing. The guide told me to take off a pair to "create an air-sock". If you wear too many pairs of socks and squeeze your feet into shoes, it squeezes all the air-pockets out and the ability of the socks to insulate your feet. In cycling shoes, one wants one fluffy pair of socks that can trap lots of air in loose fitting shoes. Think of the socks like a down-filled jacket, compressed it has zero insulation value.

Edited June 14 by Baracuda

[dave303e]

4 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

I've tried the surgical gloves under normal gloves, on a short 17km ride, got to work and poured the sweat out the surgical gloves like it was coming out a cup. And then my fingers were also doing that wrinkly thing they do when you've been in water for to long.

A few of the trail running gloves are really good for it. I have a decathlon pair. Basically they are a warm glove, but there is an over-mitten piece that is like that foil inside. On climbs you flick the mitt off and don't sweat too much, then on the drops I leave 1 finger out for the brakes and the rest tucked in their warm space blanket mitten. It was a game changer at ARWC.

[guidodg]

1 hour ago, dave303e said:

A few of the trail running gloves are really good for it. I have a decathlon pair. Basically they are a warm glove, but there is an over-mitten piece that is like that foil inside. On climbs you flick the mitt off and don't sweat too much, then on the drops I leave 1 finger out for the brakes and the rest tucked in their warm space blanket mitten. It was a game changer at ARWC.

I have those exact running gloves...and a bargain as well at the price

[Duane_Bosch]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:44 AM, dave303e said:

https://reefshop.co.za/products/reef-flipper-socks?variant=7339424645&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwjqWzBhAqEiwAQmtgT3H6zWN-wLQgAcOn62OevsuTzD3OY5DmqosVmLXJL-GPr5rMtcEkeRoCsCoQAvD_BwE

 

the dirt cheap definitely not cycle branded ones. We did an Adventure race in Scotland, the first night we paddled a loch and then down through to the sea. Anyway I had them on for that and then just ended up wearing them for the rest of the race as the temps were cold and it rained every 12 hours for the whole 5 days. But it saved me on the bike a few times.

I started to ridicule you but then I remembered something. I had a pair of Giro gloves that I used in Mallorca in winter that are basically wetsuit gloves and they were amazing so there's absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work.  

The Giro gloves went on to serve me well as surfing gloves for a year or 2 too so dual use there.

[The Ouzo]

8 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I started to ridicule you but then I remembered something. I had a pair of Giro gloves that I used in Mallorca in winter that are basically wetsuit gloves and they were amazing so there's absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work.  

The Giro gloves went on to serve me well as surfing gloves for a year or 2 too so dual use there.

I actually used to have a set of neoprene water skiing gloves, used once or twice on the bike many moons ago, I'm not sure where they disappeared to though.

But all this talk about gloves have not solved my toe problem, "hand shoes" are not what you think they are  

[Duane_Bosch]

Tin foil over your socks