Old Mutual Wealth Double Century 2025

[WaldoZ]

1 hour ago, bleedToWin said:

I honestly think it's time to start the top 10 seeded teams at 6:30 with 2 minute gaps, call them $1 to $10 and dropped riders from $ teams can only slip off of none $ teams. The point of running a competitive team time trial should not just (loosely) apply to podium contenders

This could be an idea but then teams must opt in to this and teams in this $ groups should police each other in the spirit of racing. 

[Pure Savage]

10 minutes ago, WaldoZ said:

The Active Hobo podcast with Ballairs covered the drafting and policing of it. There is just now enough resources and we can think what we want bit in 320 teams its the 310 teams that actually matter in this race and makes it what it is. So concentrating on those people is far more beneficial for the event. Last year Mother drafting ASAP/EuroSteel cost us a podium I'm sure. We also made sure we are within the rules. It just so happens it was one of the Kotas teams which then was made worse because I'm obv routing for Savage and it was deemed being salty... but as a racing team we wanted to race clean and HAVE to as part of the rules. 

For Kotas, who cares. It's fun and games but for overall it def has to apply and a protest should be handled properly. Minor teams should respect that though and I don't think they do.

We don't really care that LPC drafted ASAP, ECC worked with Rouleurs or House of 12 who somehow thought they were part of Kotas latched on to 226ers same way Mother latched on to us last year. Savage boys were on their own, did the work and feel great about the effort. Had an awesome ride and was moertoe afterwards. This is how I remembered Savage from 5 years ago, results don't matter, laughing at who crashed and burned does 🤣

You forgot the part where Savage then makes up what happens when writing the race reports and the truth is but a mere suggestion. 

It was a viab, enjoyed it immensely. Now there is a winelands, Tour de PPA, 99er,  where we need to go ride in E again because of David and Emil's punctures at One Tonner. Then its time for Gallows, maybe even some WP cycling events, then DC!

[bleedToWin]

13 minutes ago, WaldoZ said:

This could be an idea but then teams must opt in to this and teams in this $ groups should police each other in the spirit of racing. 

If Kotas want to be an amateur category and ride for vibes only and accusations of cheating are labelled as salty then those teams need to stop posting top-10 finish times. If you are fast you are implicitly racing and need to abide by the rules of the race.

[bleedToWin]

18 minutes ago, WaldoZ said:

[...] we can think what we want but in 320 teams its the 310 teams that actually matter in this race and makes it what it is. So concentrating on those people is far more beneficial for the event.

I think the experience for the 310 is enhanced by sharing the roads and the race village with the 10, but how much consideration that should be given is unclear. 

[DieselnDust]

Maybe the Cycle Tour Trust should consider partial road closures . Part of the drafting problem is the road is narrow and teams block. Close the roads for 3 hrs but stagger the sectors so it’s full road closure for the fastest 20 or 30 teams. This gives them the opportunity to pass with out latching on. Marshall’s do the rest and drafting can be more strictly policed 

[Pure Savage]

14 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Maybe the Cycle Tour Trust should consider partial road closures . Part of the drafting problem is the road is narrow and teams block. Close the roads for 3 hrs but stagger the sectors so it’s full road closure for the fastest 20 or 30 teams. This gives them the opportunity to pass with out latching on. Marshall’s do the rest and drafting can be more strictly policed 

Or the grown men could just not break the rules and sit with each other or wait at the end of neutral zones for other teams. 

To ride 74% of the DC working with other teams, lekker chilled.

[Bub Marley]

20 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Or the grown men could just not break the rules and sit with each other or wait at the end of neutral zones for other teams. 

To ride 74% of the DC working with other teams, lekker chilled.

That section through the Jacarandas once you take the left turn at Robertson towards Bonnievale is almost impossible to avoid drafting. That’s the one area of the race where it’s almost impossible to not draft. You essentially go from riding in a bunch with your own team into a proper peloton with 50 riders. The road is completely blocked off as well as you have the slower riders hogging the left and then the entire peloton flying through on the right. No space at all to move anywhere as well.

 

Everywhere else on the route I would agree with you. But that particular section frightens me every year. This year thankfully seemed quieter when we passed through but I remember last year we had oncoming cars on the one side and the peleton taking up the entire road. So so dangerous. They need to have full road closure for that section. 

[bleedToWin]

10 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

[...] is almost impossible to avoid drafting. That’s the one area of the race where it’s almost impossible to not draft [...]

I'm sure triathletes could make the same argument at many of their congested races yet they manage to share the road and get accidental advantage but they do so without forming outright pelotons.

[bleedToWin]

 

[Bub Marley]

6 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

I'm sure triathletes could make the same argument at many of their congested races yet they manage to share the road and get accidental advantage but they do so without forming outright pelotons.

We talking an individual time trial vs a 12 man team. It’s completely different. A triathlon will never bunch up like this race. And I’m sorry but this race is not only about the elites. Why should the other teams slow their pace down because that is essentially the only to avoid this? There is no space on the road.

 

The only way to avoid this is for the elites to go first but that will never happen. Whenever you do the reverse with slower guys rolling first, it’s impossible to avoid drafting. And like i said, on every other part of the race the no drafting policy can be implemented because there is enough space. But that particular section, there is no space at all. Even if you are riding slower on the left, you will still get some draft because the peloton is spread across both lanes. 

[bleedToWin]

3 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

We talking an individual time trial vs a 12 man team. It’s completely different.

Granted, but there is no attempt to share the road without drafting at any point in the race. On most of the course it's possible for teams to ride next to each other or in proximity to each other and if they were to try they'd realise within a couple of km that their speeds don't exactly match and they'd separate naturally. Drafting breaks this natural separation. The choice to form pelotons is deliberate, and I include elite teams in making this choice.

For reference on the last point, our team had riders that were no longer able to help set the pace and they would deliberately drop the wheel of their teammates on every roller to force the cheaters behind them to burn energy by coming around and closing the gap. On the descent our riders would take their rightful place right behind their teammates again, only to rinse and repeat.

[Bub Marley]

8 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

Granted, but there is no attempt to share the road without drafting at any point in the race. On most of the course it's possible for teams to ride next to each other or in proximity to each other and if they were to try they'd realise within a couple of km that their speeds don't exactly match and they'd separate naturally. Drafting breaks this natural separation. The choice to form pelotons is deliberate, and I include elite teams in making this choice.

For reference on the last point, our team had riders that were no longer able to help set the pace and they would deliberately drop the wheel of their teammates on every roller to force the cheaters behind them to burn energy by coming around and closing the gap. On the descent our riders would take their rightful place right behind their teammates again, only to rinse and repeat.

I get what you saying but on that particular stretch it’s impossible to not draft. Even if you let the bunch go, within 30 sec another bunch will come past and then another bunch. And the bigger the bunch gets, the easier it becomes to draft. One of the reasons why the drafting is less important in the first half is because the bunches are smaller and the weaker teams will struggle to hold on and then they let go. But on that middle section, everything comes together.

[Skubarra]

15 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

We talking an individual time trial vs a 12 man team. It’s completely different. A triathlon will never bunch up like this race. And I’m sorry but this race is not only about the elites. Why should the other teams slow their pace down because that is essentially the only to avoid this? There is no space on the road.

 

The only way to avoid this is for the elites to go first but that will never happen. Whenever you do the reverse with slower guys rolling first, it’s impossible to avoid drafting. And like i said, on every other part of the race the no drafting policy can be implemented because there is enough space. But that particular section, there is no space at all. Even if you are riding slower on the left, you will still get some draft because the peloton is spread across both lanes. 

Covid year 2020 organisers switched the starting sequence from fast to slow, was the one DC I did which actually felt like a TT. I was in a fast-"ish" team, there were very few instances were we passed teams or were passed, and on the odd occasion 2 teams combined extremely easy for marshals to police & separate the teams.

Downside to this was it was havoc in the bottom half of the field where the social teams were out for long hours in the sun & wind, many did not finish - was very clear the event would be killed off quickly if this format continued.

For me its obvious the organisers sacrificed the non-drafting ideal in order to host a mass participation event. Format of starting teams from slow to fast, sorry drafting is inevitable, no amount of moaning and appealing to ideals of fair play is going to change that, its just impossible to avoid.

Might make myself unpopular here but I'm fine with the format & drafting. If you are in contention for podium then yes, play fair and don't draft. For the rest use whatever advantage you can get to race the 200km because others are doing it anyway.

I do like the idea though of maybe having maybe the top podium contenders start very early (essentially what they are doing for the top ladies & mixed teams) - would probably solve a few problems and avoid hub moans.

[CTLonewolf]

I see PPA has already updated the seeding with DC times. I wonder it the One Tonner was added, I didn't do it so won't know.

[bleedToWin]

Congested Jacaranda avenue showing how it's impossible to not draft...

[bleedToWin]

7 minutes ago, CTLonewolf said:

I wonder it the One Tonner was added, I didn't do it

It has also been added yes