Cycle Lab in Hot Water

[Zula]

I agree with drivetrain. It would'nt be fun to see people who have dedicated their lives to this sport go down in flames for this. However, a crime is a crime and I, as a South African consumer, am sick of being ripped off when purhcasing anything, not just cycling equipment.

 

 

 

For instance clothing is so expensive in this country when compared to overseas countries. At the end of the day it all comes from 10 factories in China and is marked up 1000%.....period.

 

 

 

None of us actually know how much collusion there is out there, where we, the consumers are being nailed each and every time we buy something. The competition commission is the one entity that is actually there to help us out and protect us.

 

 

 

It sucks for them because their names are being tarnished, but for once it would be good if justice was not only a luxury of the rich.

 

 

 

Best of luck to them. I think they will get through it unscathed.

[Tumbleweed]

All I can say is that I'm genuinely shocked by peoples' apparant acceptance of the matter... seems that there are a lot of people out there who are happy to just 'let it go'...

 

A sign of the times maybe?

 

i'm not one of those. but i'm also not one who rubs his hands in glee at other's misfortunes.

[bustthesickness]

 

I don't think we should be gleefully awaiting these guys' downfall. Remember both have also done a great deal for cycling.

 

Oh ??? indeed - but so has Tigerbrands for brown bread etc & they fixed prices ?? Fined R90 MILLION ... who are these that they should be excluded or treated with velvet gloves ?? It's still a crime !!!

 

Not saying I'm awaiting their downfall - but hell I'm also charged for everything concerning my cycling thank U very much !!!! Hell I dispise greedy people !!

 

"DT"

They must be taken down. This sort of behavior is criminal, and they must be treated as suck. They are actually killing our beloved sport. I hope they get fined to the max. @ssholes. I will never ever buy anything from their stores again and I hope nobody else does either. Greedy filth like this need to be prosecuted, and I want my money back.

 

[Windbreaker]

 

They are actually killing our beloved sport....and I want my money back.

hmmmm

[wackwack]

A crime is a crime & if the mofo's are guilty they must be flamed & braught to justice.

Do you think the 'kingpins' whilst driving home to big fancy houses in big fancy cars(that we have paid for) think...i feel really bad today that jonny, peter & paul had to pay my 300% markup today. "Dear Lord - please forgive me"

 

I think not!!

 

Please note i did not mention any cycle stores or names.

[Canaris]

 

Have been lurking for awhile ;this site rocks BTW!
As a soon to be' date=' buyer of a bicycle (once Two Oceans and Comrades is over) I thought it pertinent, to post my thoughts...

Apologies for my ignorance of the law BUT isn't price fixing against the law? And; surely , if you get together to fix prices; isn't that tantamount to actually wanting to commit a crime? Sorta like; I want to kill all my classmates and shoot them teachers down....sorry i wont really do it,since you've got my notes on the subject,written in scribbly handwriting?

As for my opinion on McLean et al ; I really don't give a rats @ss what they've done for the sport, you commit a crime do the friggin' time. Just because they may have been "someone" when they were in the sport doesn't justify squat IMHO.

[/quote']

Good points all Headhunter (do the crime do the time - unless you are Shaik)

I think the point that needs to be stressed is, we surely should not be gleefully watching these guys suffer. Schadenfruede, I think, is not a nice thing. Some people seem to be getting massive kicks out of watching these dudes suffer. And in any circumstance there are always mitigating  and aggravating circumstances, facts, etc. In mitigation, these okes have put their lives into the sport...

 

One of the great things about language, logic and thought, is that you can twist and turn around facts until you are arguing at a 180 degrees from where you have started.  Sport and business is not the same thing.  The rules are diferent.  Intern argues that the two shop owners, being SA champs ext should be treated with leniency because they have done sooooooooo much for the sport, and this should be a mitigating factor.  Here is the opposite view.  Consider where on the spectrum you lie.  (PLEASE McLean and Fritz supporters, this as an academic exercise to present the other view point and is no way reflective of how I feel on the issue.  Please do not phone me to tell me how good Cycle lab or FPC's club is and what is being done about cycling development ext  I don't want another flame war or sulking on the street corners.  My last attempt to present a balanced argument as totally twisted).

 

Lets consider this.  Both cyclists were sponsored as riders and won prize money.  ie it was their job.  That is nice you get paid to do something for the sport?  What about me, I actually pay to race, aren't I cantributing more.

 

Then, they open a business to make more money.  They start a club to encourage customer loyalty, and organise races (which again they take some form or payement for their efforts)  Again they are applauded for doing so much for the sport.  Those of us who find inexpensive parts for our friends (like Kiwi ext), serve for no payment on club committees and marshall at club races for FREE, aren't we also contributing to the sport?

 

Now, these guys want to regulate the supply side of cycling so that no shop owner has to go hungry, by pushing up RRP, and some agrro comment about slackers, and we must accept that because they have made a business out of cycling, they should be treated with leinency?  That this is a mitigating factor?

 

No, no quarter should be given.  They even documented their intention to conspire to financially hurt the cycling community (that is the average cyclist), and now we must be kind to them.  The emotion I feel is betrayal.  I thought a SA champ would be concerned about the financial inaccessibility of the sport to middle class people.  I thought that they would rather be fighting to get the government to reduce import duties on bicycles and subsidise commuters (like in the UK).  But noooo, the guys I used to look up to as the champions of the sport and the role models to me and others are actually wanting take more money out of my pocket and reduce cycling into an elitest white man's sport. 

 

Now we are looking 180 degrees from what Intern was wanting to say.  Logical argument is real cool?

KonaFan2009-03-06 04:08:00

[Windbreaker]

 

A crime is a crime & if the mofo's are guilty they must be flamed & braught to justice.

You mean like they should burned at the stake or something?

 

 

Do you think the 'kingpins' whilst driving home to big fancy houses in big fancy cars(that we have paid for) think...i feel really bad today that jonny' date=' peter & paul had to pay my 300% markup today. "Dear Lord - please forgive me"

 

I think not!!

 

Please note i did not mention any cycle stores or names.

[/quote']Well that's actually called capitalism. There is nothing wrong with that in most countries. You are missing the point.

 

[Ghostface]

Why keep up with the Tiger Brands ref's. 711/Spar/Checkers/PicknPay didnt got to Tiger and say they weren't making enough money and they wanted the wholesale prices pushed up. Tiger thought that up themselves.  This is different.

I've been following this for a while and from the minutes of the meeting that was posted, it seems that CL and FP tried to strong arm the wholesalers by getting all the retailers to agree to push for a higher magin/rrp.

 

I think most wholesalers saw this as wrong and have distanced themselves from this since the beginning. There was a few names mentioned who said they didnt agree.

 

Sure, some wholesalers were at the meetings in question but I really dont think they knew what was going to be disscussed at these meetings and didnt leave there agreeing to anything either.

 

Blaming wholesalers for the greed of retailers, doesnt seem right to me, IMO.

 

CL an FP must have some serious bills to pay and I think that getting everyone else involved with their problems, is making cycling look bad. Doping and now this too.

 

 

 

[NotSoBigBen]

Just wondering, they say others were present. Now does just being present mean that they 'colluded' (is there such a verb before the hub linguisty get me ...) or must something be proved i.e. who did or did not agree etc.?

[BaieSukkel]

This is how things work in SA.

 

You have a couple of wholesalers, and some retailers.

 

If, like the bread companies, you're in control of the entire market at wholesale level - you try to screw the consumer directly.

 

If, however, you control a large part of a section of the retail market, you get together with some other major players and TELL the wholesaler what you want.

 

If the RRP is raised and the LBS don't sell at that RRP, they simply will not get any stock from the wholesaler.

 

The major players can however sell below the new inflated RRP because the wholesaler can not afford to lose their accounts.

 

This happens with bikes, spares, shoes, clothing, foods, furniture, cars, etc. etc. (What's the real price of a pair of running shoes?)

 

To fine them will not help.

 

They simply do more of the same to cover their losses.

 

The public must vote with their feet.

 

Do not buy if it's a ripp-off! And tell them about it!

 

We live in a global market place, the local retailer must compete with others all over the world, or shut down.

 

 

- But on the other hand. If you've done much to help the local people, like providing jobs in your bread factory or promoting events that have earned you more sales, then you've earned the right to fix prices and screw the consumer. No? -

[TNT1]

Dunno BB, what did your spell checker say?

[Canaris]

A crime is a crime & if the mofo's are guilty they must be flamed & braught to justice.

You mean like they should burned at the stake or something?

Do you think the 'kingpins' whilst driving home to big fancy houses in big fancy cars(that we have paid for) think...i feel really bad today that jonny' date=' peter & paul had to pay my 300% markup today. "Dear Lord - please forgive me"

 

I think not!!

 

Please note i did not mention any cycle stores or names.

[/quote']Well that's actually called capitalism. There is nothing wrong with that in most countries. You are missing the point.

 

being locked up in a SA jail is worse than being burnt at the stake.  (braai anyone).

 

South Africa is not a unrestricted capitalist country, but have legislation to protect the consumer, thus the investigation.  Also capitalism is not the answer everybody thinks it is.  Just look at the economic crisis we are now in.  It was caused by unrestricted capitalism in the US.  Now the state (which is not a invention of capitalism) has to tax the poor to pay for the sins of the rich, again.  I am sure all those that have got the "dear Johnny" letter in the last months would love to be told "well that's actually capitalism.  There is nothing wrong with that in most countries.  You are missing the point". 

On a personal level there is so much wrong with that.

 

Also in reply, when people advise others not to buy from a shop because they are expensive, then people complain about that.  But that is also a part of capitalism.  Every one has the right to not buy as well. 

[dries109]

 

Now we are looking 180 degrees from what Intern was wanting to say.  Logical argument is real cool?

Well said Kona  - logic prevails

[BendeBeer]

  

Now we are looking 180 degrees from what Intern was wanting to say.  Logical argument is real cool?

 

Not sure I agree with you but I like the way you're thinking

[Ghostface]

I dont think any agreements were made. As soon as this info hit the net, everyone realized what these meetings were about and just walked away. I dont think there was any "special handshakes" going on in the industry.

[DRIVETRAIN]

To say I've bought anything from C/L would be a blatant lie - Yes I've raced before & perhaps supported them in that fashion - Thankfully I've bowed out of the racing fraternity but still enjoy my cycling.

 

As for moron nr. 2 well I've never set foot in his shop & if "any other shop/owner etc." is involved & named I will not support them either. However sad that one hears what these "already wealthy/rich" guys get up to & I for one will stand first in line & say: I'm really dissappointed - alas like doping - Your ass will burn when it gets out.

 

I wish A Maclean & the rest the best of luck & God speed. Carry on carrying on--- 

 

"DT"