Fritz Pienaar denies uncompetitive behaviour

[Jules]

 

I feel so privileged to belong to a forum of such well informed individuals - not only are they specialists in their field' date=' but in their free time they have studied in the intricacies of the cycling industry.? They know exactly what the cost price of a certain item is, as well as the mark up on the item.

 

They also know what the running cost of a cycling shop is and the breakdown of income between income from servicing of bikes and the selling of new bikes.

 

They also have the ability to know what was said on a meeting without actually being on the meeting.

 

?

 

I feel truly blessed.

[/quote']

 

?

 

Well said.!!!

 

 

 

Well I for one am not one of these well informed individuals. But I do now that the e-mail sent out by Fritz, the authenticity of which nobody has denied, including Fritz, is unambiguous. I calls for a collusion over prices. That is illegal.

 

 

 

Let me just repeat it here for your benefit:

 

 

 

rom: Fritz Pienaar [mailto:mm@firebreak.co.za]

 

Sent: 17 September 2008 12:27 PM

 

Subject: Minutes - margins in the bicycling industry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear bicycle wholesaler and retailer,

 

 

 

Thank you for your support and great response in making our industry more healthy.

 

 

 

For those of you who were unaware of this meeting here is a quick refresher: "I am sure that most of you are aware that there are a lot of concerns in the retail bicycle industry. There is a lot of rumours about retail shops that are struggling and wholesalers that are not getting paid. This causes a lot of problems for everyone in the industry and I?m sure that you would agree that it is not a healthy position to be in.

 

 

 

I have had numerous meetings with retail shops and wholesalers over the last couple of months and everyone seems to agree that the retail shops are not making enough profit and that something needs to be done about it. The bicycle wholesalers agree that a healthier retail industry would also allow for a healthier wholesale industry."

 

 

 

We've had a great response from the meeting on 10th September 2008! With all the mayor bicycle wholesalers and retailers in Gauteng, we've all come to agreement that raising the margins is the resolution to the problem.

 

 

 

It is of utmost importance that we sign-up and state that you support this decision, we need everyone?s support to be able to make this change and to be able to implement these changes right away.

 

 

 

Click here to see the attendance of the meeting on 10th September 2008

 

 

 

Click here to see the meeting on 10th September 2008 minutes

 

 

 

Please click here, to state if you are supportive of higher margins in the Bicycling Retail sector

 

(We recommend that you read the minutes if you were not present at the meeting)

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Fritz Pienaar

 

083 275 2123

 

 

 

PS. Please forward this to all bike shops you know of, or wholesalers that did not attend.

 

 

 

 

[Tumbleweed]

Now my afternoon snack thread

 

 

Care to share the sandwich?.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Surely this deserves something more than a mere sandwich ??

 

 

Ah what the hell..it?s my b-day so I might as well open all 3 bottles of champagne too?.along with the Guinness' date=' Jameson, Bush mills for St Paddy?s day..

[/quote']

 

i think i'm in love?

[Dirt*girl™]

Now my afternoon snack thread

 

 

Care to share the sandwich?.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

i wouldn't get between scotty and his boerie roll?

\

 

 

Ahhh, there I was thinking all hubbers are caring?<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

..and caring is sharing?

[Troi Sport]

 

Mampara' date=' who from this forum was there?

[/quote']

there were quite a few.

 

I was there

 

you can read my comments in one of the related threads

 

[KDEE]

For me the months and months of chat about this topic have highlighted a few things.

 

In the minutes ( to me the words spoken were quoted verbatim ), was the arrogance and disdainful attitude about shops that were selling at below RRP or below other shops prices. The part where it was talked about using FPC and CL and other bigger Lbs buying power and muscle to force wholesalers to not supply those shops who would not stick to RRP was what disgusted me

 

I noted in the minutes that not all the shops supported this idea ( one spoke about using service to keep customers and another something to do with labour ). Perhaps these dissenting voices were lost in the clutter.

 

The email from Fpc as regarding the minutes was self explanatory and attempts to hide from it are cowardly.

 

The intention of the meeting may have been noble, but the arrogance of SOME at the meeting have led to much of the anger here..

 

The CC will in the end make its decision. I wait with interest to see what that decision may be. An innocent verdict will not change many of our minds. I cannot and will not forget the sheer bullying tone and willingness to put others out of business.

 

I have first hand knowledge of a Lbs who cannot buy from one of SA's major wholesalers.. all because he sold one the brands at below what they wanted to. While this is one sided info from the Lbs, the wholesaler in question supplies many of the most popular and well known brands. The Lbs in question suffers in that he cannot supply these products to his customers. Unlikely then that he would not stock the product if he could.

 

I have advised the Lbs to make a submission the the CC in this regard, but its up to him.

 

To those criticizing us on the forum that do not bow down and worship at the feet of a few Lbs, read the minutes and the email AGAIN... and then tell us that we are wrong in our assumptions.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Mampara' date=' who from this forum was there?

[/quote']

there were quite a few.

I was there

you can read my comments in one of the related threads

 

i was at the follow-up meeting in parys

[wpdeb]

I have read the letter posted on the forum and now you have to excuse my ignorance as I have no background or training with regards to legal aspects.

Why is it wrong for an industry, when not coping with profit margins to decide that they need bigger margins - as long as the cycling shop have the right to discount on the prices set and as long as discussion of prices are allowed between the customer and the shop, I dont see the problem. [and again understand, this is coming from somebody not knowing the law]

If this is unlawful, surely the whole medical industry is anti-competitive as there is a board of healthcare funders who unilaterally decide once a year what they are prepared to pay and what the increase in the medical aid rate will be.

What will be illegal according to me, is if there is a set price for example for a Campag Record Chain and cycling shops get penalized if they offer discount to a customer.

[Troi Sport]

 

 

i was at the follow-up meeting in parys

 

I believe they had an open bar at that one

 

[TNT1]

 

For me the months and months of chat about this topic have highlighted a few things.

 

In the minutes ( to me the words spoken were quoted verbatim )' date=' was the arrogance and disdainful attitude about shops that were selling at below RRP or below other shops prices. The part where it was talked about using FPC and CL and other bigger Lbs buying power and muscle to force wholesalers to not supply those shops who would not stick to RRP was what disgusted me

 

I noted in the minutes that not all the shops supported this idea ( one spoke about using service to keep customers and another something to do with labour ). Perhaps these dissenting voices were lost in the clutter.

 

The email from Fpc as regarding the minutes was self explanatory and attempts to hide from it are cowardly.

 

The intention of the meeting may have been noble, but the arrogance of SOME at the meeting have led to much of the anger here..

 

The CC will in the end make its decision. I wait with interest to see what that decision may be. An innocent verdict will not change many of our minds. I cannot and will not forget the sheer bullying tone and willingness to put others out of business.

 

I have first hand knowledge of a Lbs who cannot buy from one of SA's major wholesalers.. all because he sold one the brands at below what they wanted to. While this is one sided info from the Lbs, the wholesaler in question supplies many of the most popular and well known brands. The Lbs in question suffers in that he cannot supply these products to his customers. Unlikely then that he would not stock the product if he could.

 

I have advised the Lbs to make a submission the the CC in this regard, but its up to him.

 

To those criticizing us on the forum that do not bow down and worship at the feet of a few Lbs, read the minutes and the email AGAIN... and then tell us that we are wrong in our assumptions.

 

[/quote']

 

Nicely put.

 

[scotty]

Now my afternoon snack thread

 

Care to share the sandwich?.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

i wouldn't get between scotty and his boerie roll?

 

HR's right , but seeing as its your birthday i'll share

[minjin]

 

For me the months and months of chat about this topic have highlighted a few things.

 

In the minutes ( to me the words spoken were quoted verbatim )' date=' was the arrogance and disdainful attitude about shops that were selling at below RRP or below other shops prices. The part where it was talked about using FPC and CL and other bigger Lbs buying power and muscle to force wholesalers to not supply those shops who would not stick to RRP was what disgusted me

 

I noted in the minutes that not all the shops supported this idea ( one spoke about using service to keep customers and another something to do with labour ). Perhaps these dissenting voices were lost in the clutter.

 

The email from Fpc as regarding the minutes was self explanatory and attempts to hide from it are cowardly.

 

The intention of the meeting may have been noble, but the arrogance of SOME at the meeting have led to much of the anger here..

 

The CC will in the end make its decision. I wait with interest to see what that decision may be. An innocent verdict will not change many of our minds. I cannot and will not forget the sheer bullying tone and willingness to put others out of business.

 

I have first hand knowledge of a Lbs who cannot buy from one of SA's major wholesalers.. all because he sold one the brands at below what they wanted to. While this is one sided info from the Lbs, the wholesaler in question supplies many of the most popular and well known brands. The Lbs in question suffers in that he cannot supply these products to his customers. Unlikely then that he would not stock the product if he could.

 

I have advised the Lbs to make a submission the the CC in this regard, but its up to him.

 

To those criticizing us on the forum that do not bow down and worship at the feet of a few Lbs, read the minutes and the email AGAIN... and then tell us that we are wrong in our assumptions.

 

[/quote']

 

ah - some sense prevails

 

[Tumbleweed]

 

i was at the follow-up meeting in parys

I believe they had an open bar at that one

 

 

they did! it was actually k@k funny on the saturday arvie! i had just spoken to andrew before getting a beer. on my way back from the bar, andrew called me over and said: "do you know fritz??" after chatting for a bit, i had to ask which one of us was going to take the minutes of our meeting?

[NotSoBigBen]

Were the hearing not today .........

[Jules]

I have read the letter posted on the forum and now you have to excuse my ignorance as I have no background or training with regards to legal aspects.

 

 

 

 

I feel so privileged to belong to a forum of such well informed individuals. They know everything about the bike industry. Just a pity they're not quite up to speed about competition law.

[Dirtbreath]

 

 

I have read the letter posted on the forum and now you have to excuse my ignorance as I have no background or training with regards to legal aspects.

 

 

 

 

I feel so privileged to belong to a forum of such well informed individuals. They know everything about the bike industry. Just a pity they're not quite up to speed about competition law.

 

In the words of that famous intelectual, BOOYAKASHAH!

Dirtbreath2009-03-17 06:24:52

[pastapouch]

Like the rest of the retail sector is competitive...my @$$. You go for example to Game, Dion , R5 difference on a R3000.00 appliance. Uhhh, so competitive. And later, no more Dion, so all they probably did was , registered under one company, made the prices the same.  Now theres a coompetition commission.... oh please! Like furniture, go to Joshua Doores site and see how many other furniture shops are in a cartel ,(legal one) with them.