Would you recommend Q rings

[FanieFiets]

Bietjie wild om elke slag 3 keer Johan Bornman in dieselfde post te sien, maar jy het 'n paar goeie punte!!!!!

[GoLefty!!]

I can certainly understand that the Q-rings would even out the torque cycle - which should help mountain bikers with traction problems particularly on steep ascents.  Whether that translates to an improvement in overall efficiency' date=' I am not convinced!

[/quote']

You are not convinced yet, but starting ;-)

Later you could agree that the resistance efforts for your quads are more uniform, instead of high at the start and decreasing while the downstroke, and this generate less fatigue for the muscles (due to the tension peaks value are smaller).

 

 

Yip, thats what I find. At constant cadence i find the transition for the muscels form extended to contracts and back again is now more smooth and hence less fatigue. I still cramp but I also realise that I'm pushing harder cos I have less fatigue.

The upper limit is still my cardiovascular efficiency and muscle efficiency but teh difference is how the muscle expereinces the load.

 

Why Is it not used on Motorcycles or Cars?:

 

Er weel, motorccyles and Car engines do have reciprocating pistons  but this is smoothed out by the inertia of the flywheel.

Competition engines and high performance engines do have this thing called variable valve timing which in efect changes the point in the cycles of the piston at which the pressure will be built up. In essence this is what a Q-Ring does.

 

IS a Proper Training Programme not better:

 

Sure it is money better spent but maximising performance means more than just a training programme. Correct bike geometry, size, contact points, comfort all play a role in performance. Thats why Biokinetisists and ergonomists spend time working on these areas.

 

MTB'er and traction problems:

 

As the debate has now moved on from the traction benefits of Q-Rings for MTB'er through a more even torque cycle (At long last) we can safetly assume that the same smoother torque cycle results in a more even power at the wheel; the legs afterall are generating the torque. If the amplitude of the cycles are reduced then surely that has a direct bearing on fatigue reduction...

 

So clearly the understanding is there, it's the acceptance that perhaps the point of view of the system is not entirely correct which may be due to a gap in understanding of the science...

 

just throwing this out there..

[Johan Bornman]

Fanie writes: Bikemax - . Obviously work = Force x distance. But q-rings enables you to generate that force more effectively thus higher force = higer work ceteris paribus "

 

Fanie, there is no increase in efficiency in the system. The efficiency remains the same, all that's happing is that you're pedalling somewhat easier (that's to an effective lower gear) in some spots.

 

Work = force times distance, no matter what colour you paint it.  SAying otherwise is crimen falsi.

 

Johan Bornman

[bruce]

I can certainly understand that the Q-rings would even out the torque cycle - which should help mountain bikers with traction problems particularly on steep ascents.  Whether that translates to an improvement in overall efficiency' date=' I am not convinced!

[/quote']

You are not convinced yet, but starting ;-)

Later you could agree that the resistance efforts for your quads are more uniform, instead of high at the start and decreasing while the downstroke, and this generate less fatigue for the muscles (due to the tension peaks value are smaller).

 

I can understand the logic behind the hypothesis - but I'd like to see some proper peer reviewed publications that support the hypothesis (on a greater than n=1 subject pool).  Unfortunately my knowledge of biomechanics is weak, and muscle physiology is even weaker.

 

Can you guys provide links to the research behind the Q-rings?

[Ivanb]

Worchester Wheelers says:

 

 

You're right about no-one bing unhappy with their Q-Rings. They're expensive and Newton's Fifth Law states that Expresses Happiness is directly proportional with the cost of the item.

 

 

 

Johan Bornman

 

Johan I must correct your comment they are not expensive. Expensive is in the eye of the beholder. In fact they are less expensive than some of the standard 'high'end chain rings available at present. But Q Rings have definite advatage no matter what you say.

 

May I ask if you have tried or fitted any or even seen them. If you have you will be impressed at the quality of the workmanship, engineering and style. 

 

If you are skeptical about Rotor systems are you open to any other advances in bicycling technology?

 

It seems with cyclists weght , power, carbon fibre are okay to advances but where the real problems are i.e.  in the pedalling action everyone is closed to the fact that this can be improved 

[Ivanb]

[

Can you guys provide links to the research behind the Q-rings?

[/quote

 

yes

 

http://www.rotorbike.com/2006/qrings_test.htm

[Johan Bornman]

Fandacious writes: The q-rings is more about the motion of your legs, rather than cycling. If you look @ steam trains some of them moved over to eliptical shaped gears... "

 

Ok, perhaps you can find a picture of such a gear for us somewhere? I am no steam train driver, but all the steam trains I have seen have no gearbox. The piston connects to a wheel via a conrod. It is a direct drive system with the one gear - the wheel - being perfectly round.

 

Johan Bornman

[FanieFiets]

wat dink julle manne van ovaal wiele?

[The Saint]

Ok so whats the bottom line.

 

Ivan obviously recommends them, what about you Johan?

 

[Ivanb]

I think behind it all Johan loves them. This must be the most postings Ive seen him do on one topic.  

 

He's trying to convince himself  otherwise!!

 

LOL

 

Hey we all mates here and all comments are greatly appreciated good or uhm not so good.

 

My advise try them

[GoLefty!!]

behind it all Johan's pedantry has only servd to correct some incorrect use of physics terminology and concepts.

 

Q-Rings I belive cannot improve power but they can and do reduce fatigue.

How you link them is purely dependant on your pedalling style and physiology.

 

Some will find benefits, others will not.

 

The Mechnical efficiency of the system is not improved, it can't be. the average torque value per cycle can be higher since the torque is smoothed and there is a smaller difference between the high value and the low value than for a rider on round rings with anm uneven pedal stroke. Q-rings can help these people.

Riders with round pedal strokes may not see the benefit as easily since the Q-rings promotes this (a round, smoother, pedal stroke)

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

Ivan writes:

 

mm Johan its not all perception, its fact. If you can you less force to move a distance you will use less energy. Your effeciency improves your lactates reduce and so on, so on, so on ,so on

 

 

Effort = force times distance. If you apply less force over less distance, you put in less effort. No matter how you shuffle the equation, you'll get the same thing.

 

But I tell you what. Explain to us how you improve the efficiency in this system by using oval rings. But, start with a definition of efficiency.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

I wish I could have jumped onto this wagon a bit earlier. But Vodacom's data lines were down for two days and I'am playing catch-up. Hence the flood of posts.

 

 

 

[bruce]

[

Can you guys provide links to the research behind the Q-rings?

[/quote

 

yes

 

http://www.rotorbike.com/2006/qrings_test.htm

 

Ivan, the problem here is that this is not a proper scientific study - i.e. it could not be published in a scientific journal.  This is a preliminary study to assess whether further study is warranted - which it appears to be.

 

So, they are saying exactly what I am saying, that the hypothesis needs to be tested using an adequate control group and subject pool.

 

Quote:

Results obtained are displayed as an average of all data for each of the analyzed circumstances, and are displayed on the following charts (1,2,3). For explanation of the results, statistical variations of results were not considered, due to this being a preliminary study, so more attention was focused on evidential biological characteristics. Obviously, for a bigger group of test subjects and with control of parameters considered as optimal, it would be necessary to do a statistical analysis of the results, so they could be properly published in a scientific publication.

[Ivanb]

http://www.rotorbike.com/2006/qrings_test.htm

Have a look at this study

[Marius]

Efficiency in my eyes would be : normal power output at less kilojoules usage per minute??<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />