Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Yes' date=' and those same laws says that you may not stand and pedal and swing your bike from side to side among all kinds of nonsense. The point is the South African laws need to have a complete revamp. Okay consider this a group of 30cyclist riding files that makes a group length of +-60m(2m from rider to rider). No say this group is going at 9m/s(32.4km/h) and a car passes them at 16m/s(57.6km/h). That would mean it would take +-9s or 154meters to pass the group of 30guys. Lets throw a truck coming from the front at similiar speed in the mix. That means if the truck is within 308meters from the motorist when he passes the cyclists, that the motorist will not be able to make it, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which route he will choose to avoid the truck or oncoming traffic. Now lets say this group of 30cyclist bunch up and make their inherent bunch length say something more in the region of 20meters. It will take the car only 3seconds or 48meters to pass. Another point is often a motorist will pass a long group of cyclists only to realize halfway that he/she must turn left. Again global f-up![/quote'] So, if we do not agree with a specific law, we may disregard it without peril? There are a few I can think of that I would like to transgress without repercussions... Is it OK to kill/main/murder/terrorise others if it suits the perpetrator? Oh and skelmpie, I'm not impressed with your wanton [ab]use of mathematics to play the political game of misdirection and clouding the issue. Irrespective of any whiz bang calculations, it does not change the law! Irrespective of anything and everything else, the law states that cyclists will ride in single file. And it still stays the bottom line. NO debate about it, no special exceptions for those with moral issues regarding the said law.... NOTHING, NADA, NIKS, ZILCH! SINGLE FILE IT WILL BE! Rather petition the law makers of the country to change the laws to something that the greater community will find of benefit, than to disregards said laws at your own pleasure and leisure and set a bad example to all other road users. There are enough examples of intolerance out there, why create more?
Evan Andreou Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 very eloquent Agteros, should CSA champion such a petition or did you have someone else in mind?
Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 I'm OK with the law as it stands. No need to change it from my side. If I decide to transgress I'll do it at my peril, and suffer the consequences without complaining.
Guest Big H Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Condolences to the family of the cyclist motorcyclist that got killed. Are there any more information available? Big H2009-10-25 11:14:15
skelmpie Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Yes' date=' and those same laws says that you may not stand and pedal and swing your bike from side to side among all kinds of nonsense. The point is the South African laws need to have a complete revamp. Okay consider this a group of 30cyclist riding files that makes a group length of +-60m(2m from rider to rider). No say this group is going at 9m/s(32.4km/h) and a car passes them at 16m/s(57.6km/h). That would mean it would take +-9s or 154meters to pass the group of 30guys. Lets throw a truck coming from the front at similiar speed in the mix. That means if the truck is within 308meters from the motorist when he passes the cyclists, that the motorist will not be able to make it, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which route he will choose to avoid the truck or oncoming traffic. Now lets say this group of 30cyclist bunch up and make their inherent bunch length say something more in the region of 20meters. It will take the car only 3seconds or 48meters to pass. Another point is often a motorist will pass a long group of cyclists only to realize halfway that he/she must turn left. Again global f-up![/quote']So, if we do not agree with a specific law, we may disregard it without peril? There are a few I can think of that I would like to transgress without repercussions... Is it OK to kill/main/murder/terrorise others if it suits the perpetrator? Oh and skelmpie, I'm not impressed with your wanton [ab]use of mathematics to play the political game of misdirection and clouding the issue. Irrespective of any whiz bang calculations, it does not change the law!Irrespective of anything and everything else, the law states that cyclists will ride in single file. And it still stays the bottom line. NO debate about it, no special exceptions for those with moral issues regarding the said law.... NOTHING, NADA, NIKS, ZILCH! SINGLE FILE IT WILL BE!Rather petition the law makers of the country to change the laws to something that the greater community will find of benefit, than to disregards said laws at your own pleasure and leisure and set a bad example to all other road users. There are enough examples of intolerance out there, why create more? Agteros you cannot ignore the physical (and the mathematics) world that this takes place in. So please do not destroy the credibility of my statements. Secondly, the law is mere social constructions and is never permanent. It changes over time and from one society to the next. The law is changable and VERY debateable. Just for interest sake belgium has a whole host of laws govern group sizes and how a group should behave exactly. It works and everybody seems to be happy.Presently the South African Government has a lot more important issues to deal with that bicycle laws. So in the meantime I WILL do what I think is safest and best. Cat-i what I mean't by win-win situation, is that it makes a bad situation for motorists a bit better and safer for both.
Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Agteros you cannot ignore the physical (and the mathematics) world that this takes place in. So please do not destroy the credibility of my statements. Secondly' date=' the law is mere social constructions and is never permanent. It changes over time and from one society to the next. The law is changable and VERY debateable. Just for interest sake belgium has a whole host of laws govern group sizes and how a group should behave exactly. It works and everybody seems to be happy.Presently the South African Government has a lot more important issues to deal with that bicycle laws. So in the meantime I WILL do what I think is safest and best. Cat-i what I mean't by win-win situation, is that it makes a bad situation for motorists a bit better and safer for both.[/quote'] Yes the law is a social construct, but the South African law is the ONLY construct we have that dictates how we should behave in a given situation (being on the road in South Africa). Ignoring it or adhering to it is non-debatable. Changing it and changing it in what why is VERY debatable. Why I made the comment regarding the maths is that you ignored the effect on [the lessening of] safety due to a narrower road as the cyclists bunch up causing a smaller gap between traffic. WE CANNOT create space, we can just re-arrange it a bit. Because one person chooses to ignore what society expects of him or her (the law) does not make that action good. Hence these actions born out of the choice to ignore the law comes with its own perils and a lot of times a lack of sympathy from society when 'caught out'. Just like you are expected to NOT pick up a soccer ball in a soccer match, you are expected to ride in single file whilst cycling. (Rules and laws) The law also dictate that motorcyclists do not exceed the speed limit, even if the motorbike rider's self assessed god-like powers on a motorbike is way more than what the law assumes (I make this statement not knowing the facts surrounding this case, but from past experiences of how motorcyclists speed around on the cradle loop) We all make mistakes, and for some of us the biggest mistake is to try and justify the others we made...
Christopher Brunsdon Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 @skelmpie: I ride my bike on South African roads governed by South African laws, please keep your comments about other countries laws to yourself. Obey the law or get off the road. Next your going to get going that Helmet laws are stupid because the Netherlands dose not have them.
barrykm Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Lotus do you suggest a group of 30 should ride single file? If the road is busy, yes. No sense in hacking-off the already aggressive motorists, which is what you are going to do by riding abreast. That is the reality, regardless of equal rights as road users. If there is not enough room for a car to pass single file cyclists safely then you are taking excessive risk riding on that stretch of road, and the group should at least take cognisance of that and break up into smaller groups until road conditions improve.
Trubie Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Why do we not just ride up to these folk and politely tell them that they are being un safe. I do' date=' I know chucky would. If we all just do uor bit we would not have to have these boring chats on sunday afternoons.[/quote'] I suppose the reason why people dont ride up to them and discuss it/point out they are in the wrong is the ignorance on the side of the trangressors.A case in point was yesterday in the A bunch at Telkom race. An obvious concerned rider pointed out to a guy riding a Bianchi in Dimension Data Kit - that he wasn't too happy that he chucked his gel wrapper to the side of the road. In passing them I picked up some of the conversation, and overheard the DD guy asking the other - so what business is it of yours - do u\you want to go pick it up/ -Now the answer to your question David#7 lies in that answer and the crap attitude that goes with it.........., that idiot obviously feels he has a right to contribute to the littering problem in SA, and stuff the rest. He will also be the first one to jump on his soapbox when we get banned from riding in certain areas because of that......Same here, those people riding all over the road would cry foul when one of 'em gets hit, but they dont give a damn how they act and worst of all - they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing!!
dollar Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 The motorcyclist. May have been this accident? http://forum.thinkbike.co.za//showthread.php?t=36063
Guest Agteros Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Please post the text, need to have a user account to view Hey there!It appears that you've exceeded the maximumnumber of posts you can view, but wait, there's a simple solution. Tounlock the forum and continue viewing messages, all you need to do is sign up for a free account. The entire process takes just a few minutes so create your account now and view as many threads as you like!
Lotus Posted October 25, 2009 Author Posted October 25, 2009 The motorcyclist. May have been this accident? http://forum.thinkbike.co.za//showthread.php?t=36063 I'm not sure. The author says that the rider hit a car after rounding a bend. I saw an accident involving a taxi on a very straight stretch of road. The sad thing for the biking fraternity is that, if this is the same rider, they lost 3 bikers yesterday! Two more died after hitting a petrol tanker in the south of Jhb as well. That thread referenced above is subtitled "The Fallen" - it's a chilling reminder how dangerous our roads can be.
David #7 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Why do we not just ride up to these folk and politely tell them that they are being un safe. I do' date=' I know chucky would. If we all just do uor bit we would not have to have these boring chats on sunday afternoons.[/quote'] I suppose the reason why people dont ride up to them and discuss it/point out they are in the wrong is the ignorance on the side of the trangressors. A case in point was yesterday in the A bunch at Telkom race. An obvious concerned rider pointed out to a guy riding a Bianchi in Dimension Data Kit - that he wasn't too happy that he chucked his gel wrapper to the side of the road. In passing them I picked up some of the conversation, and overheard the DD guy asking the other - so what business is it of yours - do u\you want to go pick it up/ -Now the answer to your question David#7 lies in that answer and the crap attitude that goes with it.........., that idiot obviously feels he has a right to contribute to the littering problem in SA, and stuff the rest. He will also be the first one to jump on his soapbox when we get banned from riding in certain areas because of that......Same here, those people riding all over the road would cry foul when one of 'em gets hit, but they dont give a damn how they act and worst of all - they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing!! Trubie , you are right but I would be happier that I tried to teach them something thaan to leave them and read about them on a monday morning. Its what I do nd as of yet had not had any wise ass responses.
porky Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Didnt Gandhi say - "Be the change you want to see."!
TNT1 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Didnt Gandhi say - "Be the change you want to see."! I don't know, but I know the purported kiddy fiddler said:"I'm Starting With The Man In The Mirror I'm Asking Him To Change His Ways And No Message Could Have Been Any Clearer If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place (If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place) Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change"
evolve Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Having had the time on motorcycles both adventure and superbike the idea of any form of enjoyment on our roades is out of the question.The mindset towards any other road user whether motorcyle or road bikes is really bad.There is no real solution to the problem of road safety towards cyclists - stay off the roads.
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