maxxis, stan's ammonia sealant and the evil bubble

[Regard]

I ride Maxxis on one set and Kenda on the other, both with Stans

 

No Problemo!

[GLuvsMtb]

I had delamination issues with my Crossmark / Stans Combo as well before. Usually after about 6 months / 2000 kms. Tyres were more than 50% worn on the 3 occasions that this occured. I switched to GEAX, which is cheaper, lighter and seems to be more durable as well.

[HomerSimpson]

 

However' date=' I'm convinced the Ammonia has nothing to do with the problem. Besides, the stuff is not Ammonia-based, but Latex-based, using Ammonia as a rot preventer. Latex is tree sap and rots quite easily. Rot runs away when it smells a bit of ammonia. So do I.

[/quote']

Johan, the ammonia stabilizes the latex (yes even the non-tree derived stuff) so it does not come crashing out of the emulsion.  Add little pool acid to the latex and see what happens.  Same thing happens when CO2 is absorbed from the air (you should see what happens to Stans when you use a CO2 bomb)

 

Anyway' date=' my money is on poor bonding in the laminate. If two layers aren't well bonded and you get a puncture, the liquid goes in there, aided by air pressure inside the tyre, and delaminates a rotten patch around the puncture area. The liquid kinda wanders off in the interior of the tyre, cause the bubble.

[/quote']

 

I'm of the opinion that the ammonia does help delamination along, but that poor bonding sets it off (provides a weak spot for the process to start).

 

 

Speaking of all this:

 

1) Why are rim strips so expensive?

 

Because cyclists are stupid enough to pay that amount for them

 

2) Why do tubeless valves cost more than R200 a pair when you can get 20 car tubeless valves for the same price?

 

See above

 

3) Why is Stan's and Joe's filament tape so expensive? The stuff cost R50 for one wheel from a bike shop and R20 for a 100 wheels from a hardware shop.

 

You know where to look for the answer

 

4) What type of porridge is in OKO? Is it oats or mealie meel.

 

I don't know from porridge. 

 

 

 

 

 

[backup rider]

well' date=' finally managed to track down a thread on the issue here....... unbeknownst to me i fitted maxxis ignitor LUSTs with a stans conversion kit to my mtb about 4 weeks ago. managing to get a small sidewall cut on my-almost-as-new rear tyre this weekend was only overshadowed by the horror of finding my bike with a flat front tyre and a deflated bubble looking like melted skin flopping on the sidewall this morning. 2 tyres gone in as many days.

 

now here is what i consider poor form:

stan's not placing a warning on their sealant that this may occur.

maxxis not doing the same.

the bike store where i bought and fitted the kit not issuing a warning / recommend a sealant that's not ammonia based

 

well, school fees paid i guess

[/quote']

i run the same combination and after three months no problems yet..but i will be watching carefully lest it pounces upon me

[Johan Bornman]

Johan' date=' the ammonia stabilizes the latex (yes even the non-tree derived stuff) so it does not come crashing out of the emulsion.  Add little pool acid to the latex and see what happens.  Same thing happens when CO2 is absorbed from the air (you should see what happens to Stans when you use a CO2 bomb)

 [/quote']

 

I was taught that it was a preservative. You learn something new every day. I'm interested in the emulsion bit. What is the oil in there?

 

I'm going to try the pool acid experiment. I don't do bombs, I'll wait 'till someone else does it.

 

Homer, you say you thing the ammonia does play a role. It has to be a chemical role, right? What reacts with what? 

 

 

 

 

 

[rad006]

Porridge in OKO hahaha you want the secret recipe???

[Aquatic]

Ok so judging by the posts,it seems that either you get occasional batches of tyres thats the problem,or batches of stans..what is it?and stabilizing the latex,does that mean keeping it liquidy?

[dirtrider]

I have also been told by one of these cycle reps that Stans . Joe's or mieliepap got nothing to do with these bubbles .

[Mr Mulebar]

Seems to me the answer is simple ride CONTINENTAL!! 4 years various tyres 0 preoblems with any tubeless sealants!!!

[Plentipotential]

 

Speaking of all this:

 

1) Why are rim strips so expensive?

2) Why do tubeless valves cost more than R200 a pair when you can get 20 car tubeless valves for the same price?

3) Why is Stan's and Joe's filament tape so expensive? The stuff cost R50 for one wheel from a bike shop and R20 for a 100 wheels from a hardware shop.

 

What is'nt expensive in this cycling game. It's basicaly a rip off industry! R600.00 for a bicycle tyre, R1200.00 for a tyre for my bakkie? FFS Yeah I know, all the R & D bullsh*t, what? they just stick rubber together to make car tyres and hope like hell they work, I think not.

 

The Maxxis tyres have a reputation for delaminating, Pro Bike will replace them. Why should you have to ask them to replace a tyre? These tyres should have been taken off the market long ago, instead Pro Bike replace the defective tyre and you hope like hell your tyre does not fall apart on day 2 of a R 7000.00 entry fee stage race!

[HomerSimpson]

Johan' date=' the ammonia stabilizes the latex (yes even the non-tree derived stuff) so it does not come crashing out of the emulsion.  Add little pool acid to the latex and see what happens.  Same thing happens when CO2 is absorbed from the air (you should see what happens to Stans when you use a CO2 bomb)

 [/quote']

 

I was taught that it was a preservative. You learn something new every day. I'm interested in the emulsion bit. What is the oil in there?

 

Johan' date=' it "preserves" the latex (which is just another word for an emulsion) by keeping the pH basic.  The surfactant (both the natural one that comes from the tree and the ones that gets added to the synthetic latex) is cationic.  If the pH goes low, the surfactant stops working and the latex coagulates.  In the rubber emulsion the rubber is the oil part.

 

 

I'm going to try the pool acid experiment. I don't do bombs, I'll wait 'till someone else does it.

 

You can try just plain vinegar as well.  Add the acid, rubber coagulates, you can in fact squeeze into a ball and bounce it (demo we sometimes do for schoolkids and science teachers).

 

Homer' date=' you say you thing the ammonia does play a role. It has to be a chemical role, right? What reacts with what? 

[/quote']

 

My opinion only.  We've discussed this before, and at that time I could not think of any chemistry that could affect the rubber, but maybe between rubber layers, or at the interface of the rubber and the reinforcing fibres?  Sometimes they use  a urethane glue to "size" the fibres and to get better adhesion to the rubber.  Urethanes don't like pH extremes.  Maybe...but this is an informed guess only.  One day if I have time I'd like to do some experiments....

 

 

 

 

 

[nickc]

I have had two Maxis tyres delaminate, 1 x Larsen TT and 1 x Crossmark. Both had Stans in them but were well used. I like the Crossmarks so have bought some OKO and will try that.

[Dirtbreath]

 

[Dirtbreath]

Sorry, not the greatest of pics but the bubble is in the middle under the cross. Has this problem ever led to the total failure of a tyre. I still havent put back the replacement that Probike gave me but this problem seems to have been going on for quite a while. Any other tyres other than Maxxis XMark and Larsens that it is evident with?

[Johan Bornman]

Thanks Homer.

[SwissVan]

 

you should see what happens to Stans when you use a CO2 bomb

 

 

Please advise what happens to Stan with CO2 Bomb, been trying to figure this out since i saw the warning on the Stans packaging.

 

So far my Stans / CO2 combo sems to be working fine, allthough I have not had a hole in the tire yet, but it sealed the bead area just fine?