Why you are not welcome in the cradle

[Sammajoor]

Mampara' date='

 

I think the reason is, this is where the 2 biggest clubs hold their Saturday early morning club rides, it is pre 94.7 so this problem is exacerbated.

 

If a club demonstrates it is doing everything reasonably possible to deal with road safety, obeying the rules of the road etc, then why should the club be fined for the actions of a few individuals? If a BMW driver speeds who get's the fine?

 

I am all for clubs doing everything possible to deal with these issues we all face, however every individual needs to take responsibility for their own actions!

 

Our 2010 paid up JHb members will have their names on their bikes.

 

Andrew.

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

Good for you Andrew.

[Cradleresident]

Andrew, Giovani, Ian and Mark are the only guys that are looking at sorting the issues out and are coming up with ideas. There is no problem with the general cyclists in the cradle (I ride during the week), its the few that make our life hard and come across three or four of these groups on a drive and your day is messed up.

No other club as made any effort to improve the situation and i have no idea of what clubs are out there or who belongs to who.

[AndreZA]

 

If a club demonstrates it is doing everything reasonably possible to deal with road safety' date=' obeying the rules of the road etc

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

with the backup vehicle that sees everything, surely they can drive to next to the culprits and tell them to get in line.

 

 

 

If a BMW driver speeds who get's the fine?

 

 

 

 

just for driving a BMW I think they've been punished enough with a low IQ.

[Slave]

Not the first time this very contentious issue has been raised.

 

For what it's worth, my take on the matter is this:

 

The road infrastructure in SA is inadequate on all fronts. There are too many cars for the roads in their current state. Result overcrowded roads leading to huge frustration.

There are way to few dedicated bicycle lanes for cyclists to ride in safety.

And then we have the attitude problem. Strange how the attitude seems to come mainly from those who are actually the biggest rule transgressors.

 

I can understand the frustrations from all sides, but understanding the attitudes of some escapes me.

 

We are all our own biggest enemies. Motorists and cyclist alike and forebearance and tollerance will go a long way to alleviating a lot of frustration. This implies and act of consideration on both sides. Motorists and cyclists alike.

 

We will get nowhere by hurling bricks at one another.

 

Yesterday mornng, I was apalled by the behaviour with the bunch I set out to ride with. At a new traffic light in our area, almost the whole bunch went right through a red light, forcing a motorist to wait at a greeen light for these fooligans to complete their illegal move,

 

I think we the cyclists are mostly on the wrong here.  Guys, this is just not good enough and we have to clean house. Seriously, look at your behaviour and contemplate the simple fact that 100 kg of flesh and bone will always come a very dstant second against a car, truck or bus.

 

Ride as though your life hangs in the balance because trust me, it DOES. Argue all you like as to whether or not we have a right to use the road. But do you have the right to abuse it?

 

Stop being a bunch of @rseholes and obey the rules, Never mind what others are doing. It is irrelevant.

 

Cradle resident, I hope that this situation can be resolved. I truly do. I live out south so the issue of the cradle does not affect me, but the general theme and bahaviour of many cyclists does have an impacrt on me.

 

The tossers ride like they own the roads out here too and one day it will cause a huge problem. Like when someone gets killed because someone lost their temper.

 

It will be too late then. Adjust what you can now, before that sad event happens.

 

We have no control over what others do, only what we do and our attitude towards the whole issue of consideration and sharing.

 

NONE of us have exlusivty over the roads and the law applies to us all equally.

 

Are you doing your part to be sure you are on the right side of the law?

 

Think about it. Contemplate the consequences or count the cost. That cost is too high for me.

[Lotus]

 

@ Slave -

 

The way things stand right now, cyclists will always be in the wrong, thanks to the inconsiderate acts of a few foolish cyclists.  I thought they only demonstrated their stupidity out on the roads, but I'm disappointed to see that they trumpet their stupidity on this forum too, like a bunch of lycraed Julius Malemas!

 

Another thread mentions a serious accident in the Cape yesterday (https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum_posts.asp?TID=66822). A mention is made of one of the vehicles attempting to overtake a group of cyclists when the accident took place. While the facts are unclear, who do you think is going to be seen as the cause of that accident?

 

I previously suggested that the relevant cycling organisations should patrol selected routes from time to time, and "educate" transgressors. Here's another idea. How about cyclists signing a Code of Conduct and wearing a visible symbol (a la Think Bike) proclaiming their allegiance to safer and considerate cycling? It's an initiative that would be more visible than merely "asking our members to observe the rules" and it would show other road users that we're cleaning up our act.

 

 

 

 

[Eldron]

There is a really simple way to solve this entire problem - unfortunately most people are not capable of it.

It's a strange phenomenon calld "thinking".

 

THINK that driving a motorbike at 200kph on public roads is maybe not a good thing.

THINK that relieving yourself in public is just not very nice - whether you do it every weekend or not?!

THINK that taking photos the week before the 94.7 and revealing them as a "typical" weekend in the cradle does give a balanced view.

THINK that riding 4 abreast when there is a perfectly good cycling lane that allows 2 abreast riding is not considerate.

THINK that a 2 ton piece of metal moving at 100kph with a driver (just like you) who may be distracted by the radio/other vehicles/cyclists etc will still kill you (whether you're obeying the law or not - newton trumps the law pretty much every time!).

THINK that other people live on the plane with you and the best way to give everybody the best experience at being alive is to consider them AND yourself.

 

Sadly I can only see this problem getting worse as the current sentiment in SA seems to be heading more and more towards "f*ck you mate - I"m OK".

[Barking Mad]

I am a member of Club100 and have to admit that I am embarrassed to see our members riding in a manner that they know is not acceptable.  We are told at the beginning of each club ride that we are to ride single file and only when there is a large enough verge are we allowed to ride 2 abreast. 

 

I could point fingers at Cyclelab or any other cyclist in the photographs but the bottom line is that we are all at fault. 

 

We are all adults and well educated so why is it so difficult to understand what single file or 2 abreast means.

 

With the 94.7 coming up, there are a lot more cyclist out there but this is no excuse and does not give us a licence to do as we please.  We still need to obey the rules of the road as well as the code of conduct that we all have to sign when joining the club. 

 

Another thing to remember, we are wearing club kit with our sponsors names on it and not only does bad behavour reflect badly on our club but also on our sponsors.

 

It looks as if it is the same group being photographed.  Come on guys, dont spoil it for the rest of us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Myra]

The question as to what the driver who is complaining about having to sit behind cyclists blocking the road would do if it was a slow truck was raised on this thread again.  It often gets raised on such threads.

I just want to make the observation that quite often the drivers of slow trucks move over for faster moving traffic when they can.  When they can't move over, some truck drivers indicate to the drivers behind them when it is safe to pass.

I have driven up to Namibia and back lots of times and the road generally does not have a yellow shoulder for the trucks to move over into but they are generally very helpful in allowing others to pass them.  (Although on my last trip there was actually a marked difference in the attitude of the drivers with SA registration plates as opposed to Namibian registration plates ).

Any way, my point is that courtesy and patience go a long way and that all road users (pedestrians/drivers/cyclists) should be more considerate.

[scotty]

Because a rider wears a brand kit it does not necessarily indicate they belong to a club, Tour de Frans, Cycleab, Saint Sports etc all sell kit bearing their name to general public and as such clubs have no control over them.

[Barend de Arend]

 

with the backup vehicle that sees everything' date=' surely they can drive to next to the culprits and tell them to get in line.

 

[/quote']

 

You'd think so, but you'd be wrong.  I used to be a marshal, sometimes riding at the back to move forward when ppl weren't two abreast and shouting[1] at them to move left.

 

I might as well have banged my head against a wall.  Those who care, are already left.  Those who don't, ignore you.

 

Anyway, it shouldn't be just marshals.  There simply aren't enough marshals[2].  The rest of the riders should enforce safety rules across the bunch, and kick people out if they blatantly disregard rules continuously (done that once too)

 

It's a case of one bad apple spoiling the barrel.  Especially when you're told not to overlap wheels, and the idiot in front moves to the right.  Do you follow, or do you risk overlapping wheels?  Is he moving because of a pothole or glass?  Or is he moving because he's overlapping wheels on an uphill because he's desperate not to get dropped?

 

I gave up trying to marshal.  It was stressing me out too much.

 

To affect this kind of change -- which would be a good thing -- there needs to be a culture change.  Habits must change.  This takes time.  This always meets resistance.  So there needs to be some motivation to change.  A bit of carrot, and a bit of stick.  Once it's the norm, it will become self-enforcing.

 

[1] Seriously, shouting as loud as I could.  Into their ears eventually.

[2] "enough" is about one-in-five or one-in-six.

 

 

[Danger Dassie]

There is a really simple way to solve this entire problem - unfortunately most people are not capable of it.

It's a strange phenomenon calld "thinking".

 

THINK that driving a motorbike at 200kph on public roads is maybe not a good thing.

THINK that relieving yourself in public is just not very nice - whether you do it every weekend or not?!

THINK that taking photos the week before the 94.7 and revealing them as a "typical" weekend in the cradle does give a balanced view.

THINK that riding 4 abreast when there is a perfectly good cycling lane that allows 2 abreast riding is not considerate.

THINK that a 2 ton piece of metal moving at 100kph with a driver (just like you) who may be distracted by the radio/other vehicles/cyclists etc will still kill you (whether you're obeying the law or not - newton trumps the law pretty much every time!).

THINK that other people live on the plane with you and the best way to give everybody the best experience at being alive is to consider them AND yourself.

 

Sadly I can only see this problem getting worse as the current sentiment in SA seems to be heading more and more towards "f*ck you mate - I"m OK".

 

Well put Eldron, although I've that last statement to be true more so in Jhb than anywhere else.

This is especially revealed in the way people drive and generally use the roads here.

[Moab]

Wow! I have just read through 14 pages of this.

 

Firstly: CR - I feel your pain!! Nothing quite like riding on Cedar road and having masses of cyclists hogging the road. My friends and I gave up riding out on your route because of 2 incidents: firstly about a year ago we were riding just to the right of the yellow line (because there was way too much glass in the yellow lane) and single file when some idiot came up behind us (and darn close to my back wheel!!!) and hooted and shouted abuse at us, he then sped past us and parked in the yellow line and further harassed us as we cycled quietly past (think the fact that we all shut up and ignored him peeved him off more). The second one was the final nail in the coffin when on our last ride out there earlier in the year we had motorbikes skimming us (so yes, I fully feel your pain with them!!).

 

I find it sad that we have been forced to abandon this once safe riding area as it for most of the group started riding there and now do no weekend training. I hope that with the cyclists involved in negotiations and the residents, some form of treaty can be found and we can hopefully return there.

 

After reading this long thread I can proudly say that the best move I made a year ago was to move over to Cycle Lab. Shot Andrew, Mark, Ali and the rest of the team! The forward and positive thinking of the club shows that the club not only cares for us as cyclists (with the barrage of smses and emails we get with regards safety) but also for the communities we are riding in. Thank you guys.

 

 

[Gasping]

Never been there, so I will accede to their wishes.

 

We do make our name mud at every chance don't we? I am not even going to get into a "we have rights" debate. If the inhabitants on The Cradle don't want me there, that's cool by me. Don't fancy a cattle-prod anywhere on my body......

Gasping2009-11-09 05:19:46

[AndreZA]

on't fancy a cattle-prod anywhere on my body..

 

 

 

I bet if you "behave" you will not need to to worry about it.

[Slave]

Mampara, the problem today as succinctly put by Eldron is that generally, most people today have that "*** jou houding". Both motorists and cyclists alike. Even pedestrians seem to be playing with their sick leave by walking in the road as if almost daring a motorist to run them over.

 

Since when is someone one foot allowed to pull a cart of sorts piled high with all sorts of junk picked up. And then Metro drive by without so much as telling the fool to remove himself from the highway.

 

Chances are if they did, said fool would tell Metro where to go.

 

Such things as manners and commn decency seem to be very much in decline these days and as for moral standards, well, let's leave that for another debate / thread.

 

Suffice  to say, we all think we are "entitled" and srew anyone and everyone else. Some day, someones gonna get a hurtin' from that attitude.

 

Really, our attitudes suck and it is going to cost us one day.

 

Are we wiling to pay the price?

 

 

[Gasping]

on't fancy a cattle-prod anywhere on my body..

I bet if you "behave" you will not need to to worry about it.

 

Why take the chance? I am not welcome along with the collective. Don't schmaak a tazer by some vigilante who thinks bad thoughts about me because I am on a bicycle.