Heart rate during training

[TNT1]

 

 

If you are going to be using HR for training, learn how your body works. Learn your OWN HR. DONT base your calculations on someone elses

 

What snakeblood said.

[fandacious]

What snakeblood said.

 

thanks. check the title under my name

[Guest Anon(yMous)]

Hijack

 

Usually everyone's max hr is higher than the formula. WOnder why mine is so much lower. My max is 184 and I'm only 24 years old.

 

I'm on the 'right' side of the four oh, I have the same 'problem', although my HR is still way too high compared to some endurance runners / duathletes / triathletes I've trained with before.

 

The formulas are merely a statistical calculation with some variance included in the definition. I max out at just over 171 on the bike. Running and MTB HRmax is higher as more muscle groups are used.

 

HRmax should be highest for running, then MTB, then road cycling.

[Zula]

Interesting thread. I have had this debate with my riding partner and some friends recently.

 

A friend of mine who is an avid runner bought an HRM to improve his performance. Anyways cut a long story short he noticed that his heart rate was through the roof even when he was not exerting himself very much. So off he went to the GP who said its high, and then to the cardiologist for a check up. The cardio said to him that he gets at least 2 people a week coming in to his office who have just purchased a HRM, and are freaked out because their MAX HR does'nt agree to the one per the formula. He said that in a nutshell, everyone is different in size shape and form, and therefore one cannot apply a formula to determine a MAX HR, it needs to be done based on max exertion.

 

My riding partner and I are the same age, however im 6ft and he is about 6ft6. How on earth could we eve have the same MAX HR based on a formula? Also, if you research the formula method on the net you will see that it was desgined for patients recovering from heart surgery back in the 60's so as not to over exert them.

 

In summary, we are all different and the formula, while a guidline, is inaccurate. If you want to determine your max heart rate, find a hill in your area, roughly 500m long and give it horns up the hill. do this 5 times and see what you max at. That will give you a better indication of you MAX HR than the formula.

 

It is important that people determine their max HR correclty, because HR training is hugely valuable for the average Joe (myself) who does'nt want to go get VO2 tested and bla bla bla.

[Wheelsuck]

As said previous HR is a personal thing. To get ur max use a scientific method such as Karvonen. For Example: (MHR-RHR)*x%+RHR where MHR=Max HR, RHR is Resting HR.

So Example (MHR-RHR)=190-60

=130x70%

=91+RHR

=151 is ur 70% of Max.

 

There are scientific ways of getting to ur max HR, but my way is record on ur HRM in a race. A lab/test environment does not make u go full tilt like a race-so i like the BTTW method, it's more real. Anycase your heart can beat at much more-heard from a dr that if the heart is electronically stimulated it can beat at up to 300 beats.

[Mellow]

for example look at mr Bluddy Stander's heart rate at a XC Race here : http://goo.gl/TNFL

seldom goes over 180bpm and he is young.

 

when you upper body starts going numb(shoulders particular) the you know you are at you max

[Reden]

for example look at mr Bluddy Stander's heart rate at a XC Race here : http://goo.gl/TNFL

seldom goes over 180bpm and he is young.

 

when you upper body starts going numb(shoulders particular) the you know you are at you max

At 40 years old my MHR was 193bpm and that was seen going up Kyalami's mine shaft.

Upper body didn't go numb but breathing could not go faster and the pain was too much.

[desmondalie]

if you test properly your max hr is not really negotiable. As you get fitter you can push to your max easier. This does not mean that your max hr changes with your fitness. Its simply you body's capacity.

 

My max is 195 bpm and if i am unfit i just push out less power that when i am fit at the same heart rate. In any event evaluating your fitness on your max hr is naive to say the least.

[Bos]

Welcome to the Hub Molifi,

 

Your Heart rate is a indication of how hard your heart needs to work to supply oxygen to your muscles.

 

As your body( cardiovascular system gets use to the higher demands, you get fitter. As your body gets used to the higher heart rate intensity and it handles it better , you will be able to maintain a higher HR for a bit longer.Thats the basics of getting fit, Your Cardiovascular system gets stronger and can take more punishment before it feels Like youre going to puke. Your body gets use to the workload you give it, then up your training, till your body gets use to it again..and on you go.

 

 

 

Thats very simple but basiclly how your body works.

 

 

[Clinton - theCOW]

As said previous HR is a personal thing. To get ur max use a scientific method such as Karvonen. For Example: (MHR-RHR)*x%+RHR where MHR=Max HR, RHR is Resting HR.

So Example (MHR-RHR)=190-60

=130x70%

=91+RHR

=151 is ur 70% of Max.

 

There are scientific ways of getting to ur max HR, but my way is record on ur HRM in a race. A lab/test environment does not make u go full tilt like a race-so i like the BTTW method, it's more real. Anycase your heart can beat at much more-heard from a dr that if the heart is electronically stimulated it can beat at up to 300 beats.

 

We're all different, genetics would have a part to play, even from your parents (if they were couch potatoes) etc. If you've been a couch potato your whole life, that will have an effect. I started cycling with a friend, same age, our MHR's and avg HR's are way different!

 

I believe in the method above simply cos as you get fitter, your RHR drops, but you must realise that for each sport you will have a different MHR. Swimming the lowest (body weight supported by water), Cycling (partial weight supported by saddle), running the highest (full weight on legs). So if you do each discipline you'll actually need to calculate MHR for each 1.

 

I believe in finding a consistent/proper way to test MHR, do a proper 15 min warm up, then choose somewhere where you can do a consistent 2min flat out no disprutions (seated always). Your 1st attempt will feel like hell since you're only warming up now, you get a 2min recovery then repeat the 2min flat out 2min recovery another 2-3 times. Over the next couple of attempts, you will get higher values.

 

So my question to all is since you have HRM's, do you use them as a pretty figure on your bike or a training tool?

 

Do you take notice of your HRM during a race and do you think it affects you mentally?

[kosmonooit]

I know a measure of fitness is how long it takes for the rate to return to normal after exercise - that what they do in ECG's and fitness tests, but problem here with goodies like the Garmin 500, it gets turned off at the end of a ride and stops recording.

[Wheelsuck]

@Supasonic to answer ur question. I am lost without my HRM, this does not mean I slavishly follow it but it give me an indication when to slow down or start to hammer in a race. I use it as a gauge and adjust. If u ever wanna check how the perceived exertion versus actual HR differs, put the HRM where u cannot see it and ride then check afterwards what the difference is to what u perceive the effort to be.

[Trubie]

I wont profess to be an expert because from when I studied Phys Ed in the late 80's till now, a lot of theories and beliefs in this field has changed or turned on its head. When you only have access to a HR monitor it can serve a great purpose. It can also act as a mechanism to hold yourself back too much, and never actually push yourself to the limit (which you wont know where it is as you dont go there).

 

Its common sense that when you get older, your max HR drops by a few beats per year. The reason why the formulas as explained in this thread dont always work,is because it doesnt take any training history into consideration. Eg. you might have been actively involved in some sort of endurance type activity or sport earlier in your life, which contributed to your heart and lungs developing etc. So naturally you might have a big and stronger heart than a fellow rider of your age. To simply use the formula you might both get to more or less the same answer, depending on yr resting HR. Now you ride together and for the same perceived effort yr HR is 120 and your partner's 130. Problem is that this number can be influenced by so many factors that it should always only be one of the measures used to ascertain your fitness level etc.

These factors could include:

- state of fitness

- riding in a group/alone

- weather

- route

- genes

- health condition , etc, etc....

 

So , whilst training might not seem to be able to increase yr max HR, its true that if you are fitter than a month ago, you will be able to push yourself harder and therefore your max HR might be higher than before, but just because you have never gone there, not because the training made it higher.

 

To use the HR as a guide to determine fitness by looking at the rate it drops after a hill climb or a session on the bike etc, is well worth the effort, but once again the factors could have an influence. Comparing that session with a similar one a month ago etc, will certainly give you some sort of indication as to whether or not you are improving or getting fitter - provided all factors are as close as possible to similar with the previous session.

 

Best is to have your Lactate Threshold tested in a lab, that will give you the scientific answer to where the cut-off points are for the different training zones (if you use HR based training),but even those tests cant give you an absolute max HR value. What they would normally give you is the value at which your body can for a maximal effort of say 3 mins operate at before going into O2 debt (that state when you start seeing stars and holes in the ground etc..)

 

Hope this makes some sense

[Clinton - theCOW]

@Supasonic to answer ur question. I am lost without my HRM, this does not mean I slavishly follow it but it give me an indication when to slow down or start to hammer in a race. I use it as a gauge and adjust. If u ever wanna check how the perceived exertion versus actual HR differs, put the HRM where u cannot see it and ride then check afterwards what the difference is to what u perceive the effort to be.

 

During a race, the value should have 0 meaning in determining how hard you push! I get crazy avg HR's racing

 

I just think it's crazy interesting that people have these devices yet very few know the potential it holds when training according to a program of sorts.

 

Eg. I got my Polar, it purely showed me a number, it meant nothing really, was merely a number then. Did the Polar "course/explanation" & while it seemed crazy to drop my avg speed by 3-4km/h to stay in zone, after 2 weeks, i was backup to my normal speed yet my HR had dropped by 5-8 beats. I can't say i was "unfit" cos i'd been riding previously.

[Reden]

When to test Lactate Threshold?

Now when fitness is not high or later when quite fitter?

Started again recently after some time off the bike and busy with some base miles.

[Trubie]

I would say its best to do it now while fitness isnt as high as you want it to be. That way you will get a guide as to where to train (Zone wise) to get maximum ROI for your training.

To find out whether it worked you can test again in 3 months or so.