Matt

I'd be curious to know how they tackle those banned users returning under new profiles? Or are their permissions structures tied in with forum activity, i.e. you can only participate in buy/sell areas after posting X many forum posts? If I recall correctly both AVforums or Carbonite have a minimum post count requirement. There have some suggestions from Hubbers over the years for a similar rule to restrict Classifieds access to forum posters with a certain number of posts. In a smaller forum-driven community it is a great approach, but practically it's just not a good fit for Bike Hub. With all of the above said, while it works reasonable well, we know there is room to improve the rating system on Bike Hub and welcome constructive feedback in this regard.

Firstly, apologies for the non-reply to your message via our help desk on this. I think you're conflating a few separate issues here. 1. What constitutes an agreement In many of the disputes we encounter the "agreement" between buyer and seller doesn't exist or in the absence of clear terms is viewed very by either party. Not to say that is the cause of your experiences, but vague or unclear communication is often at the root of disputes of this nature. e.g. Where a buyer thinks they're first in line or the seller is not entertaining any other offer, but the seller never explicitly agreed to these terms. Was there a mutual agreement in place with a set of clear terms? e.g. price, method and time of delivery/collection, inclusions/exclusions. 2. Repercussions for buyers/sellers not sticking to agreements Where issues arise around a sale that took place via Bike Hub or there was a clear agreement in place, the user rating system generally works well to address these issues. Poor ratings are a key signal for would be buyers. You mention that there are many sellers operating freely with serious allegations / 1 star ratings against them. Provided the allegations are not of unlawful behaviour (in which case more serious sanctions may apply), is it not better to have this visibility of ratings vs. banning a user after X many infractions and risking them creating a fresh profile with no ratings? 3. The ethics of re-selling There have been numerous discussions over the years around the ethics of reselling. Our view on it is quite simple: while obviously some basic rules and standards must apply, overall the market will self-regulate around these dynamics. As a seller there are pros and cons of selling to an end-user vs. a reseller. Similarly as a buyer there are pros and cons of buying from an end user vs. re-seller. Relating this to your post: it sounds like you've lost out on a deal or two to a re-seller. Looking purely economically that tells me that either the seller had significantly under priced the item or your offer was significantly lower than true market value (or a mix of both). If your offer was 10% more than the re-seller's offer would the sale have gone to you? Your note that this is less prevalent when dealing in road bikes is very likely linked to the far lower demand for road bikes in the market. i.e. buyers have fewer offers... less demand to drive up the price and less opportunity for resellers. Where demand is high your offer will need to be good to beat out the competition.

Please report the profile to us via help@bikehub.co.za with any other info you have, e.g. links to reported stolen bikes with matching parts.

I did a test now using Brave Version 1.26.74 Chromium: 91.0.4472.124 (Official Build) (x86_64) on MacOS 11.4. Login across all sections appears to be working. With cookies set to block 3rd party cookies only. If you're blocking all cookies then login persistence will be an issue. If first party cookies are allowed, then you might just need to clear cookies for bikehub.co.za and try logging in again.

Apologies for the radio silence on this @BSG and others. I had addressed Tapatalk in the "website gremlins thread" but missed this one. Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future Tapatalk will not be supported by Bike Hub. Tapatalk don't currently offer a stable version of the plugin for our forum software version. Furthermore, we encountered some concerns over the security and privacy of the plugin in general. We know there is a small but avid user base of the app and had full intention to re-instate support following the upgrade, however platform stability, security and privacy must come first. Not the case. It's actually free if we allow them to show their own ads. Or they ask a small fee of $10 a month to go ad free.

Dear @Harryn, Drawing the lines on this issue has been tricky. When the questions around the future of non-cycling discussion first arose last year the obvious, cleanest solution on the table was to remove non-cycling sections altogether. In a cold and purely mathematical context that might have been the obvious choice, but in recognising that there is a lot more nuance to the community dynamics it didn't feel like the right approach. Ultimately we took a middle ground approach as had been suggested by many Hubbers. Cut out the divisive topics like religion, politics and current affairs, but retain most of it. On the surface the consequence meant that 3-4 active threads in Current Affairs are no longer, but the bulk of longer running non-cycling discussion is still there. Based on the feedback from users in response to the initial topic this felt like a very reasonable compromise. Broadly speaking Covid-19 is and has been a divisive issue. The discussions around it have been the source of most moderation issues since the closure of the Trump threads. I do acknowledge that the fallout thread you refer to does have a distinctly different tone to it vs. other discussions on the subject. It's certainly something we didn't fully appreciate, but equally it's a tough one to draw the lines on. Why do we allow one covid thread but not another? There is a high risk that the more politically or ideologically rooted discussion that is divisive and problematic simply moves across. How would we address that without opening the floodgates for even more moderation issues? Opening any one issue up in part really blurs the lines further. It's a tough balancing act and the slope on either side is a little slippery.

Given what we hear from the bike industry in SA and beyond in terms of rising input costs (manufacturing, components, freight, etc.) comparing the 2022 Scott pricing with 2021 models is pleasantly surprising. Most brands and manufacturers are warning of significant price hikes looming for 2022. As @JoggiePrinsloo mentions the exact model specifications must be considered, but as an example: Scott Spark RC Comp 2021 currently available for R65k, 2022 indicative RRP R69.9k.

We gladly post news of market-relevant new tech at no cost to the local importers. Some of them do pay to promote beyond a free press release. Most often the issue is getting the press information in time to publish before 101 international publications have broken the news and threads have sprung up here. We've got good relationships with all the local importers / subsidiaries, but there are times where even they get the embargoed press info quite late relative to international counterparts.

I sense some confusion around what's allowed or not. Use this as a rough guideline on what Off-topic discussion will remain on the allowed list based on the current forum structure Off-topic Chit Chat Other Sports Computers and Tech Current Affairs (most threads in here are of a political nature, occasionally religious) There may be some cross-over where threads exist in other sections, but as a general rule other sports, hobbies, what to watch/listen to etc. are safe. The most problematic threads are typically political, religious or related to other firmly held beliefs. "Current affairs" is admittedly broad and something of a grey area, but again as a guideline... if it's a News24 story (or similar) which you can no longer comment on there, Bike Hub isn't the place for commentary either. Structurally we will be combining all the above into a single Off-topic / non-cycling forum. This will be as part of a broader reorganisation of other cycling forums to make things easier. At the moment there's a long list of forums and it's often unclear where to post or look for what, the idea is to make that simpler by combining some unused or overlapping sections.

I hear you. But what if the experienced members who's thread sprawling squabbles cause the newbies to leave or never bother asking a question in the first place? In fact we've had many long-time experienced members leave for the same reason. And yes, better moderation absolutely has a key part to play here, but most often it's a conflict and culture stemming from off topic debate that bleeds into cycling discussion in a negative way. Obviously there's a balance we have to strike, however if members leave a cycling website because we limit their ability to discuss a subset of non-cycling topics then perhaps they weren't hanging around for the right reasons.

@Gen this reply isn't directed at you specifically but you raise some points I've seen others question and perhaps some further context and history is needed. It's quite clear from the reactions of Hubbers that Bike Hub means very different things to different groups of users, we know this but it's often surprising to us just how different that can be. Here is some context from this side of the curtain. Bike Hub began life as a rudimentary "message board" in 2004. Since then it has evolved, partly from our input, but mostly shaped by users and what you've used Bike Hub for. As early as 2008 the predominant use of Bike Hub was to buy and sell bikes and gear. Back then we had a simple Buy & Sell forum which quickly became a torrent of ads that was near impossible to search or filter. This was the opportunity that lead me to turn Bike Hub from a hobby into a business in 2010. The Buy & Sell forum became a purpose built Classifieds section with categories and filtering. We've continued to build on this over time as user demands evolved. Later we began publishing some content. Predominantly press releases, but at a stage we produced a healthy amount of original content in reviews, interviews, etc. While we enjoyed creating content and without tooting our own horns did a decent job of it on original content, in a world where everything is available online from some serious international players, as a primary revenue driver for the business it felt like a losing battle. This content pre-occupation led us to all but ignore what always the "big opportunity" for Bike Hub. About three years ago now we made the decision to re-focus our efforts on the Classifieds. In numbers even then it was the engine room of Bike Hub, accounting for well over 60% of traffic (now well over 75% of traffic). All through this journey the forums have lived on and evolved in their own way. We saw the arrival of big social, Facebook, Twitter, Strava, Youtube and even the likes of WhatsApp begin to service some of the role Bike Hub played in connecting cyclists with each other and information. And no doubt other platforms will do similar in future. Despite this, we feel strongly that the forums can and will continue to add value in specific contexts in a way that these other platforms can't. We know we can't be everything to everyone, and trying to be would see our demise. GCN, Pinkbike, even some Youtubers and many others... there are so many great sources of cycling content in 2021, all globally available. Even on the Classifieds front we're cautiously aware of the likes of Facebook marketplace and other upstarts. The bottom line is that in order to succeed and thrive we have to focus, play to our strengths. Our core strength lies in Classifieds. Of course the community that surrounds Bike Hub is shaped in part by forum activity, the content we create and other softer factors. The move to reduce the scope of non-cycling discussion will without doubt change the dynamics of the forums. We expect post counts to drop, at least in the short term, but ultimately the move is one in favour of quality (relevance to our domain - cycling) over quantity.

More acquired... they purchased a majority stake in the company in 2019.

Hi all, Please see the announcement related to this here:

Hi Hubbers, It’s been many months since the discussion around the direction of Off Topic conversations first kicked off and we’ve had time to deeply consider the best approach. A number of the non-cycling discussions relate to important topics. These are often complex issues which fall far outside the realm of bicycles. Quite simply, Bike Hub is not a suitable platform to be debating such issues when so many other better suited alternatives already exist on the internet. We also do not believe it is reasonable to expect moderators on Bike Hub to shepherd civil discourse around such complex and often thorny issues. Ultimately Bike Hub is about cycling first and foremost. Any time and energy applied by our staff or volunteers must be focussed on encouraging more meaningful discussions about bicycles. Upcoming changes A consolidated non-cycling discussion section will remain active, but with strict rules around the scope of discussions allowed, including: No politics No religion No current affairs And any similar themed content Topics or posts which fall outside the scope of allowed discussions will be removed and the posters will be warned. We know these changes are not going to please everyone, but the steps we’re taking are with the interests of the broader Bike Hub community at heart. Our core mission is around connecting people through a shared passion for bicycles. We assist newbies with advice on their first purchase, the seasoned rider clearing out an “N+1” bike to a willing buyer, and we connect riders who simply want to share the stoke of where their bike takes them. As part of a renewed focus on positive connections and quality engagement this is one step towards adding further value to all cyclists. We hope you come along for the ride. ~ the team at Bike Hub

Regarding the forum search performance and accuracy, we're aware it's not up to scratch right now. It's slow and is quite limited when it comes to shorter searches (e.g. two letters). Results can and performance be a bit "patchy". With the platform update we do have the option to connect a better search engine vs. the default. We are in the process of exploring this option. For the moment a Google site search will be your best bet, but on-platform forum search will be improved soon.

Hi Wayne, Thanks for the feedback. We do recognise that we can't please everyone and I can fully appreciate that there's no reason to support us if we're not catering to what you find value in. To clarify the points you raised: Tapatalk - as mentioned earlier, this move was unfortunate but for good reason. There are some concerns over the security and general stability of plugin we are required to install to activate this. We know there is a small but avid user base of the app and had full intention to re-instate support following the upgrade, however security and privacy must come first. Off topic - I do understand that with any level of uncertainly around non-cycling discussions the appeal dwindles for a user who's primary benefit lies there. It's no secret that it remains an area of consideration for us, and at the same time the upgrade meant the removal of some customisations we had in place to allow users to tailor what was in their "Active topics" feed. On the old version the inclusion of non-cycling topics in the Active Topics view was always an "opt-in, i.e. the Active topics view for a users defaulted to only showing cycling related topics (as it does now), but those who wanted could customise that. So for those who had customised it there will be a significant change, but for most others it's business as usual. We will share some news later this week around the way forward for non-cycling discussions.

Sorry about the delay. Could you share a screenshot with us, preferably via help@bikehub.co.za Will have to see if we can replicate on this end, but it sounds like resources from our CDN for the forum (https://cdn.bikehub.co.za) are not loading correctly. If you have a firewall or similar blocker installed it might need t be added to the whitelist.

Mod note: Merged with existing topic on the subject

I'm sure there are cases where it's a convenient excuse, but any distributor who's able to have any amount of stock in SA stores on the day of a global launch is doing a damn good job, even outside of the current conditions.

The guys at Rush Sports (distributors of Santa Cruz in ZA) confirm Blur CC frames should become available in the next few months in SA. Only the CC version will be available as a frame only option.

Their top end builds have a claimed weight of 10.23kg and 10.69kg or the Blur and Blur TR versions respectively. But as you mention, that pricing likely in the #nobudget range, i.e. R200k+ https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-ZA/bikes/blur We'll ask about frame only options in ZA, but stock is very limited with global shortages & delays. There were a few at their local dealers yesterday, but likely all pre-sold.

Noted the feedback, thanks. Sponsors like Isuzu see cyclists and Bike Hub in particular as an important community. Their support goes a long way to help ensuring Bike Hub remains online and can grow. We do our best to balance the bike relevance and provide value even with sponsored content. Will see what we can do about some more bike shots ????

Check out what we thought of the Eclipse in drop-bar configuration:

Apologies for the silence. With respect to Tapatalk I can't see this making a come back any time soon. There are simply too many question marks around the stability and security of activating this plugin. We'll review this at a later stage, but right now it unfortunately remains too big a risk to enable. The issue related to toast pop-ups has been logged and is on the list to attend to soonest. Thanks for reporting.

Unfortunately the updated post counts are here to stay. Most members will have seen a drop after the recount due to topics removed over the years, and some "pruning" of some seriously old topics. We had over a decades worth of content to migrate and this was necessary to ensure the upgrade process as streamlined as possible and downtime kept to a minimum.