Goodbadugly

Listen to Johan. A lot of rubbish about lighter wheels comes from twits working in bike shops. I bought alloy nipples(not because they are the best, just because I wanted to add a bit of colour) from a bike shop and specified 2mm nipples. I had to take them back because they were 1.8mm. The "race snake" in the shop asked why I want 2mm spokes, for they are so heavy. I tried to explain that a Revolution 2.0-1.5-2.0 spoke is not classified as heavy at all. I was not getting through to him. So I asked him just to do as I ask. I want 2mmx12mm nipples. So this dude carried on about his 1.4 kg 29er set. I asked him what spokes were used in his wheels if it was not heavyweight Revolutions... My advice? Remember that to get the weight of your wheels down to silly, you have to use silly light hubs as well. Like Tunes. Lightweight hubs use alloy freehubs. So the less light okes can break these with their torque and bodyweight. Rims like Crests have rider weight limits. So at least Arches. The chances of getting a robust 29er wheelset below 1.7kg is small. (Depending on your $$$ income)

And ended up dead a year later...

Like Hairy said: BB will be too low.

+1

My cheaper/free option took 24 days to reach the post office. And remember the VAT.

Hmmm. R2850+vat=R3250 Why not order local? http://www.easybike....et-fc-m980.html That's R350 more. And no hidden taxes etc. Spokes? I want 290/292mm Revo's in silver. And could not get them locally. The lbs told me that the agents was out of stock.

I ordered some spokes 3 weeks ago. Still not a trace of them.....

Always buy the one with the better fork.

Why not just buy a new complete bike?

Maybe they do not like comebacks. So they spec them with good solid wheels. Now if you get yourself a set of weenie wheels and stuff them up, it's your problem. The thing is that bikes are assembled with machine built wheels. They have to error to the heavier side to get the wheels to hold up. If you get a good builder, you will get a stronger light wheel. But not many people are prepared to pay for professional wheel builders. As mentioned on another thread, many bikes come without a weight limit. Bike companies will be troubled by 160kg riders employing lawyers because their Race gold wheels folded under them while they were just riding along.

I have a friend with a bike like that. Got himself a set of Crests. Now he only rides the oem wheels. He says they are good enough. Don't fix something that ain't broke.

Silverback Vida 1

The reason for me asking is that if you look at the weights of the Mavics and the Easton EA 90's they all end up at about 1750g. A friend bought a Canondale (lefty) carbon and it was specced with Arch rims. And that on a R40k+ bike. Those wheels also end up somewhere in the 1700gram class. Dt Swiss offerings for rims are also 470 grams a rim(same as Arch). They do come lighter, but also with a lower rider weight limit. The Crests with a rider limit of 86kg. So if you are a 80kg guy in your socks and you add a pair of shoes, helmet, 2 water bottles, 2 bananas, ride with a full bladder and suffer from constipation, you are pretty close to the limit. Chances that these will last long if you do not finesse them are small. Not counting the extremes (carbon rims), it seems to me that good lightweight wheels end up at 1750-1850g? Interesting that the EA90's have a rather low spoke count of 24. Where as Stans rims take 32 as standard. Good feedback

What would be a good wheel weight for everyday riding? I am not talking about the sub 1.4kg Race Gold stuff. What does your wheels weigh?

Welcome, Mr Guevara. What is a responsive ride?

You mean like in day dreaming?

Always difficult to distinguish between marketing and the real thing. Unfortunately money and marketing speaks the loudest in this world. "The all new BMW X9.6.5. Now with 365kw raw power....blah blah blah." Last year's model only had 359kw. So how is Joe average going to "feel" the 1.715334% extra? Remember the Ford XR6 INTERCEPTOR? At that stage of my life I did not even know what that fancy word meant. In the last few years we heard about: Rotor rings. Q factors and stiffer BBs. Thus a load of new "standards". Shimano's internal GXP PF92, BB30. WTF more. 20mm maxle. Being an overkill for 99.9% of riders (Not lots of downhillers in this world) 15mm. Fox and Rox. "lighter but just as stiff" And at the rear not the 135mm but an amazing new 142mm standard. With TA! And a 150mm for the downhillers. Ceramic bearings in the rear derraileur. Wheelsizes galore. Shifters that are 13.33679% smoother. Wonderful cables that not only weigh less, but is smoother. Tires with negative rolling resistance. And some of the older tires with rolling resistance of over 50 watts!!!! So now Mr Average will complete his 70km marathon in 5:30 and not 5:30:02. And 2X10speed. My first bike had only one speed. And one of my palls had a THREE speed Chopper. We saw 3,5,6 7,8,9 etc speeds. And tripple chain rings. To give us more choice. Now maths has improved so much that they could tell us that there are too many overlaps. So less. But the idea was not even "the new standard", when the 3X10 came out. Not sure how a 3X10 is better than 3X9? And stiffer frames giving a softer ride. "Stiff, yet compliant" And do not forget all the wonderful powders and potions sold at prices close to that of rhino horn. Stuff "proven" to make you 17.33002% faster and 34.698% faster recovery. (results may vary) Compression stockings. And up to this day I see guys with power balance bracelets. Rant over. Read the above as a sarcastic outlook at the confidence merchants, marketeers and "researchers" churning out useless data. My opininon on 15mm Thru axle? If you have a weenie fork (SID), it might help. But not if you have a 1.45kg 29er wheelset with 24 skinny spokes and tire pressures of 1.5 bar. If you do downhilling and have wheels with 36 2.3mm spokes rims that weigh 750 grams, go for it. I see somewhere in a post somebody mentioned the Epic. Consider this: If you stuff up a wheel and a bike store must help you out, what are the odds of them having a 15mm TA wheel in 100mm (or is that 110mm???) versus a qr9 wheel? Same goes for 142mm TA.

Good for you.

And as I walked into a bike shop this morning I saw a Scott Scale Expert 29er 2012 with a set of Crossmax 29er wheels... Not OEM.

You are right. Depending on your budget. The carbon GT, Giant XTC, Silverback Storm, Scott Scale Expert, Merida options are very good options. But if you are on a tight budget, there are even better options than the mentioned carbon bikes. Take for instance the Siverback Vida 1. Good fork, XT drivetrain, Crest/Stans wheels and that at a VERY competetive price of around R16000. A friend of mine got himself a nice Scott Scale Pro. A top spec bike indeed. Ending up 'upgrading' the bar, seatpost, saddle and wheels. Now where does that leave you? With a bike close to R35000. Another friend has a Stumpy. Costing R32000ish. Ending up with a 'upgraded' the stem, post and bar. Two others bought Scott full sussers for around R30000 each. Ending up with tubeless conversions on tires and a few other thingys. Like bars. Another guy bought his wife a Cannondale hardtail for R40k plus. And the wheels are due for an upgrade... Now I am not saying this is the norm. These are just examples of R30k-ish bikes. This is BEEG money. The point made by TheV is that peeps buying bikes in this price bracket DO tend to suffer from serious spells of upgraditis. If you want value for money, get a Vida 1. Me? I do tend to suffer from upgraditis from time to time. So building a bike will cost you more than a complete offering. But then the upgrades are already done. And you don't have to sit with a garage full of OEM seatposts, stems, bars and wheels. (which you paid for)

Build. Nice project. A composite 29er. I was looking for one a few weeks ago. I wanted: Reba, xt crank, x9 shifts. Brake does not matter. They only slow you down anyway. I DO NOT like the cabling to go under the bottom bracket. That is where the run offs from your bottle collects forming a stickey mess if combined with dust or mud. I want a standard size seat post. The GT had most of these specs @R22000. But it was king of ugly with cabling routed under the BB. Good wheels. Upgrades needed on post and bar. The Spesh I could get for a GOOD price around R30000. But I need a bike with a low stand over. Short legs. It also had a SID fork. The Scott Expert is nice, but it had that infernal below the BB cabling, a huge seat post and xt shifts. And heavy weight wheels. The Giant XTC has an odd downtube. Huge. Fox fork. X7 shifts and heavy duty wheels. Also around R22000 and very upgradable. Siverback storm. WELL specced with full XT and a good fork and Crest wheels. But I am not fond of white wheels yet. Also around R23000. So that left me in the R27000 price range. So I went to do a few calculations. Hub market stuff. Prices including postage. Fork: got a reba off a new bike from Raysingh for R2800 Crank: Got a XT from Naas for R1800 10 spd Cassette 1050 from Wheelerdealer for R360 X9 shifters from tigerlduplessis R800 X9 ders form CWC for around R1100 2 chains and a load of odds and ends, stem, Conti X Kings from Kiwi for R1500 A Ritchie Superlogic bar a few months ago for R800. Gobi saddle for R500 I have a EC70 post in the garage just gathering dust. A good second hand set of Elixers for R1000. So around R11000 for everything except the frame and wheels. Leaving R16000 for the frame and wheels. You can take your pick on the hubmarket for anything from R4500 to R8000 or you can buy a branded frame. I got a Highball, leaving me with R2500 for wheels. Luckily I have a Dirty Flea hubset(used, but good) just waiting for rims. Crests/Arch for R800 from Buycycle/Rush/CWC. Leaving the Revolution spoke price for my own pocket. These are on the way from CRC. (R600 for both wheels+VAT) Ending up with a basket price of +-R27000. I can't wait. All these articles are still in transit from who knows where. I will build it up myself. For the same price as a store bike. With my specs. Most guys paying R25000 for a bike and end up upgrading the tires, bar, seatpost. And later even the wheels. Mine will be EXACTLY what I want. If you opt for a R8000 unbranded frame, you can buy wheels for R5000 and have R2500 left. Have fun.

Not ammused

There is a debate?

As I sit here sipping a glass of red wine I think about this. Always a few clever couch potatoes with rather daft remarks like "if Kempson can do it, it is easy. So everybody that could not finish must be really bad/dumb/not real mountain bikers(my favourite)/unfit." Only a rookie in mountainbiking and stage racing will wonder why people are not able to finish big stage races like the Epic.

CZ75?