Formula 1...

[RoddieJ]

18 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

But, Sainz did not lose his position on that final lap. He finished 3rd,behind Lewis . I don't see how it disadvantaged him. 

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/12/2021-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-interactive-data-lap-charts-times-and-tyres/

The point Ferrari are making is that Sainz still had a race to run, and had to pass cars which he had already lapped, unlike Max.

Sainz also had to make sure that he didn’t get overtaken for the podium position he was in at the time of the safety car.

Essentially, they are saying that the race was not only between Max and Ham, so the release of lapped cars should have been consistent through the field. I think Sainz would have lost the position if all the lapped cars were let through.

But let’s see if anything even comes of it. Still, it’s getting messy...

[Vetplant]

10 minutes ago, RoddieJ said:

The point Ferrari are making is that Sainz still had a race to run, and had to pass cars which he had already lapped, unlike Max.

Sainz also had to make sure that he didn’t get overtaken for the podium position he was in at the time of the safety car.

Essentially, they are saying that the race was not only between Max and Ham, so the release of lapped cars should have been consistent through the field. I think Sainz would have lost the position if all the lapped cars were let through.

But let’s see if anything even comes of it. Still, it’s getting messy...

I can see the Mercedes argument. Lewis was: Lap 53-P1, Lap 54-P2

But Sainz was: Lap 53-P3, Lap 54-P3

I fail to see how he was disadvantaged. Thus the reason I say this is just lawyers looking for a payday. 

['Dale]

Analysis 🎙️

 

[MrJacques]

Hopefully they'll be more consistent with the rules next year, but I can kinda understand the choice that was made given the situation.

[ScottCM]

I love how all the Lulu fanbase are up in arms even though the FIA was on their side for the majority the season. 

[RoddieJ]

20 minutes ago, ScottC-M said:

I love how all the Lulu fanbase are up in arms even though the FIA was on their side for the majority the season. 

Nah Dude,

I think it is more a case of questioning the rules and decisions rather than who won.

After all, rules are the means to make racing fair.

And I am not a Lewis Hamilton fan, but I think he was cheated out of the win.

[Vetplant]

1 minute ago, RoddieJ said:

Nah Dude,

I think it is more a case of questioning the rules and decisions rather than who won.

After all, rules are the means to make racing fair.

And I am not a Lewis Hamilton fan, but I think he was cheated out of the win.

By his team's tactics, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOkB81j7QQ

It was at this moment that Lewis knew he was in deep trouble.

 

[RoddieJ]

11 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

By his team's tactics, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOkB81j7QQ

It was at this moment that Lewis knew he was in deep trouble.

 

Agreed.

But there’s no way anybody knew that racing would continue after the safety car, until the penultimate lap.

And the freeing up of only certain lapped cars was also unprecedented.

RB reacted and gambled on the pit stop and it worked, while MB were slow to see the opportunity.

[Gnarly]

12 hours ago, Vetplant said:

I can see the Mercedes argument. Lewis was: Lap 53-P1, Lap 54-P2

But Sainz was: Lap 53-P3, Lap 54-P3

I fail to see how he was disadvantaged. Thus the reason I say this is just lawyers looking for a payday. 

Maybe Sainz could have had go for 2nd or even 1st if he was right up behind MV at the end of the safety car?  

[Vetplant]

2 minutes ago, RoddieJ said:

Agreed.

But there’s no way anybody knew that racing would continue after the safety car, until the penultimate lap.

And the freeing up of only certain lapped cars was also unprecedented.

RB reacted and gambled on the pit stop and it worked, while MB were slow to see the opportunity.

It was a massive gamble. When Latifi crashed I checked the laps remaining and thought it is very tight to get that car cleaned off the track AND have some racing.

This race will be talked about for decades to come. Which is good for the F1 brand actually.

[capediver]

Just to show how much confusion there was....

 

[Vetplant]

3 minutes ago, Gnarly said:

Maybe Sainz could have had go for 2nd or even 1st if he was right up behind MV at the end of the safety car?  

Theoretically yes, but practically, I don't see Sainz going past Max on that Lap, Max was a man possessed...

Maybe Sainz could go past Lewis if Sainz was also on Fresh SOFTS like Max, I couldn't see if Sainz pitted under safety car from the highlights, looked like he was still on the White HARDS at the restart.

[ScottCM]

16 minutes ago, RoddieJ said:

Nah Dude,

I think it is more a case of questioning the rules and decisions rather than who won.

After all, rules are the means to make racing fair.

And I am not a Lewis Hamilton fan, but I think he was cheated out of the win.

MB with their many unnecessary engine changes, while still within the FIA rules is the same as mechanical doping, and this is the real cheating that happened during the season. No other team did this to the EXTREME that MB did. If Lulu was as good as he and his fanbase thinks he is, it wouldn't have been necessary and he would have won long before the finale as they had the superior car. Likewise it wouldn't have been necessary for MB to get the FIA to change the pitstop criteria & change the rear wing specifications during the season just because their opposition was better than them at doing their job! 

 

I was a Lulu fan all through his McLaren and then early MB days. His off track media attention seeking started to get to me after awhile but then when he came out with his BLM and poor me I've been hard done by BS was the final straw. Plus the guy is a total hypocrite, he complained about Vettle (way before MV was around) but then does the same, with him and Toto its always a Pot & Kettle situation.  I liked MV when he came onto the scene as well as Lando and Charles. Yes MV is aggressive and that reminds me of Schumie and Senna. I don't care about the Vegan , LBTQ , or whatever other media whoring BS that goes on, I watch F1 for the racing and Max is a racer! 

[Robbie Stewart]

6 minutes ago, ScottC-M said:

MB with their many unnecessary engine changes, while still within the FIA rules is the same as mechanical doping, and this is the real cheating that happened during the season. No other team did this to the EXTREME that MB did. If Lulu was as good as he and his fanbase thinks he is, it wouldn't have been necessary and he would have won long before the finale as they had the superior car. Likewise it wouldn't have been necessary for MB to get the FIA to change the pitstop criteria & change the rear wing specifications during the season just because their opposition was better than them at doing their job! 

 

I was a Lulu fan all through his McLaren and then early MB days. His off track media attention seeking started to get to me after awhile but then when he came out with his BLM and poor me I've been hard done by BS was the final straw. Plus the guy is a total hypocrite, he complained about Vettle (way before MV was around) but then does the same, with him and Toto its always a Pot & Kettle situation.  I liked MV when he came onto the scene as well as Lando and Charles. Yes MV is aggressive and that reminds me of Schumie and Senna. I don't care about the Vegan , LBTQ , or whatever other media whoring BS that goes on, I watch F1 for the racing and Max is a racer! 

I agree wholeheartedly, except for the being a Lulu fan. I would never . . .

I absolutely despise his persecution complex. It makes him a wholly unlikeable person in my estimation.

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

beb24070-7543-4da3-8df1-61a222b57641.jfif

[Vetplant]

I think it is Naas(or Nick Mallet) who said that you need to have your gameplay on such a high level that a wrong refereeing decision will not be able to take the win away from you.

Springboks got that right at RWC 2019. (The SF against Wales was way too close in that aspect) 

But some matchups are just so tight that it is impossible to get that far ahead and you unfortunately need to live with the losses as much as you live with the wins that come from those 50/50 calls.

This year was insanely tight between Max and Lewis and it is absolutely a fair reflection on the season that a controversial refereeing decision seems to be a major factor in deciding who won the Championship. But there were MANY such decisions throughout the year, not just this one. Any one of them could have swung it one way or another, it was that close.

LEWIS would have been a Worthy champion if the dice fell his way in this last race.

MAX is a worthy champion, even taking into account the fall of the dice on those last laps at Abu Dhabi.

MERCEDES deserves the Constructors Championship, that car and Engine is MEGA!

Edited December 15, 2021 by Vetplant
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