Riding up the DOWNhills at Tokai

[Headshot]

OH NO! I am starting to wade through the comments and look what I found. Right of way!!?? NO, not that argument again.. One way of getting this thread longer than a bald man's face is to dig that line out the attic!

 

This issue is not about right of way. Saying right of way quantifies to saying nothing at all on this thread. Right of way is to yield for traffic coming up the mountain. That is a fact, it has been that way since oxen pulled wooden 29er sleds. A downhill track is somewhat different from the right of way point you raise. The clue to the answer points to the name of the sport.

 

 

Agree, that people should not be triding up a pure DH track. Question is what is a Dh track. One which the baggy boys/girls regard as their stomping ground or one which is steep enough to make most of it unrideable - eg Mamba (think I have the name right). Sure as hell someone will try and get up it. In those situations, right of way does become an issue.

 

There are tracks which I regard as primarily as dh fun tracks but which people regularly ride up. Who has right or way? Some of these are steep making a sudden stop for the dh rider dangerous - the IMBA rule of dh rider yielding is hardly appropriate here. Nonetheless, its generally possible to slow and yield to some extent if the other party does the same.

 

Also, what is a dh rider - only someone with a 20kg 8" travel bike and body armour, or anyone, from lycra clad snakes to kids who enjoy a good blast down the mountain?

 

The only place I see xc/beginner/dh meeting regularly is at the big berm and below. Some of the people I see in plastic pads are as slow as anything down there, but look like DH riders. Some XC looking riders fly down there do all the jumps - some of the videos made at Tokai show this clearly.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there are so many different strokes in this sport of ours - definitions are blurred and we all need to co-operate, be reasonable and yes, just chill!

Edited May 25, 2011 by Headshot

[TNT1]

 

 

Also, what is a dh rider - only someone with a 20kg 8" travel bike and body armour, or anyone, from lycra clad snakes to kids who enjoy a good blast down the mountain?

 

 

I guess what I am saying is that there are so many different strokes in this sport of ours - definitions are blurred and we all need to co-operate, be reasonable and yes, just chill!

 

It's got something to do with wheel size. I'm sure of it.

[TNT1]

That is the thread I fear the resurrection of.....trolls and zombies will abound if the key of time is not protected from the evil bridge troll

 

I tried. Post#45 on page three of this current fred. But only corporalmayhem was interested.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I tried. Post#45 on page three of this current fred. But only corporalmayhem was interested.

 

Only because I couldn't help but chuckle... It was spectacular in its infanticity (I claim the word)

[Guest Omega Man]

Hey all. Sorry for taking this long to respond and sorry for the essay.

 

@OTM. I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way. It was not my intention.

 

Right. About those downhills.

 

There clearly is a lot of confusion around who has right of way and what exactly constitutes a Downhill at Tokai. I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight so I went for a little ride on Friday and took special care to look at the signboard at the entrance and the signs at the entrances of the trails. It's in all of our interests to know and abide by the rules.

 

Firstly the sign at the carpark.

 

In my opinion it is quite misleading. From what I could make out it indicated that all the single track is downhill and all the jeeptracks were the xc routes. This is obviously incorrect or I misread the sign.

 

There are also a few things on the sign that surprised me.

 

1. Hikers and Horsey people have right of way over mountain bikers. I find that particularly odd as hikers and horse riders don't seem to pay to ride there. But I guess safety issues come in to play etc.

2. There is a blanket 30kph speed limit.

 

Right now to the trails. Once again I took special care to look at the signs marking the entrances to the trails. The signs are there for everyone to see and by IMBA standards mark the entrance to the trails and give them a grading.

 

There are 3 bits of trail at Tokai marked as Downhill. The signs clearly show a black diamond and the signs read as follows.

 

Downhill 1 (From the Road Gap)

Downhill 2 (From the road crossing abt 200m above the berm)

And last but not least Downhill 3/Vasbyt. We all know where that is.

 

Yes boys. Vasbyt is marked as a Downhill.

 

Now you can argue it any way you want. But. Downhill 3 is a......DOWNHILL and therefore people heading in a downward direction have right of way in that particular area. EVERY SINGLE downhiller I have spoken to in the last week agrees and most of them say "Read the sign dude. It says Downhill"

 

Now downhillers are not unreasonable guys and we don't consider the trail all the way down to the quarry to be downhill but the bit from the berm, over the root gap and the 3 jumps are Downhill. There are also 2 nice safe exit points in that area. The one branches north at the 2nd jump and comes out 50m north of the berm. The second exit deposits you on the road just below that huge log lying next to the track.

 

For me personally if you want to ride up a downhill that is your prerogative but doing so puts you in a precarious position both ethically and physically.

 

The most dangerous bit is riding up the berm at the entrance to Downhill 3. Seriously guys. We can't see you when we drop in to that bit of trail and if you are coming up the berm we are gonna slam into you. And no-one wants that. Even the guys saying you will come off second best etc. It's also not our duty to scream or whatever when we enter the trail. It's your duty to get out of the way.

 

And you can say stuff like we are youths with attitudes (I'm 38) and whatever you want but if you ride up that bit of trail you lose the moral high ground. You are breaking the rules. You are putting yourself and whoever you encounter in danger. It's exactly the same as driving up a one way road.

 

How often do you do that?

Edited May 30, 2011 by Omega Man

[splat]

Its all good and well to talk about this on The Hub, but how will you go about getting this enforced?

'No Entry' signs then need to be erected at the bottom of each of these 3 sections.

Who put up the existing signs and how do they feel about this conversation?

 

Off topic:

When I see a horse on the single track, I see red.

They have the whole effing forest to ride in, why come to a section built exclusively for mountain bikers?

Edited May 30, 2011 by splat

[(Deon)]

 

The most dangerous bit is riding up the berm at the entrance to Downhill 3. Seriously guys. We can't see you when we drop in to that bit of trail and if you are coming up the berm we are gonna slam into you. And no-one wants that. It's also not our duty to scream or whatever when we enter the trail. It's your duty to get out of the way.

 

And you can say stuff like we are youths with attitudes (I'm 38) and whatever you want but if you ride up that bit of trail you lose the moral high ground. You are breaking the rules. You are putting yourself and whoever you encounter in danger. It's exactly the same as driving up a one way road.

 

How often do you do that?

 

I agree. Even if it was marked "walk in the park", it is still dangerous to ride up a blind corner. Riders may argue that it has always been ok to ride up singletrack, but those days have passed. The sport of MTB has changed along with the trail use.

 

Routes will become designated.

 

Oh and for the misleading signage? All made by parks, when last did you see a ranger on a bike?

[Guest Omega Man]

Its all good and well to talk about this on The Hub, but how will you go about getting this enforced?

No signs then need to be erected at the bottom of each of these 3 sections.

Who put up the existing signs and how do they feel about this conversation.

 

Off topic:

When I see a horse on the single track, I see red.

They have the whole effing forest to ride in, why come to a section built exclusively for mountain bikers?

 

I'll happily get signs made up and put them up but will people just ignore them? Most likely. I hear you about the horses. But I do like a tidy looking woman on a horse.

[(Deon)]

Its all good and well to talk about this on The Hub, but how will you go about getting this enforced?

No signs then need to be erected at the bottom of each of these 3 sections.

Who put up the existing signs and how do they feel about this conversation.

 

Off topic:

When I see a horse on the single track, I see red.

They have the whole effing forest to ride in, why come to a section built exclusively for mountain bikers?

 

 

If you see a horse on the track. Please record day time and where.. post it on the hub, start a topic under rant.. Forget about name, you'll get a hoof in the mouf.

 

This is important!!

[Slowbee]

also, are there no entrance signs (and why) at the critical points to the downhill only sections ?

[Headshot]

Good post Omega Dude - That clears up quite a bit, but when does Vasbyt stop being a dh only? Or is it the whole way down? I tend to think it should be but then again the gradient is gentle after the first few jumps.

 

30kph limit - hope they never start using radar guns on us as they do in the USA....

[Guest Omega Man]

but when does Vasbyt stop being a dh only?

 

In my opinion the downhill ends at the 3rd jump. But that is just my opinion.

[Guest Omega Man]

also, are there no entrance signs (and why) at the critical points to the downhill only sections ?

 

Every trail entrance (As far as I can tell) is marked. But I get what you're saying. The bi-directional trails should be marked at both ends and the exit points should also be marked. Actually. Come to think about it they aren't all marked are they?

 

I'm pretty sure Deon is busy sorting that out but it's a process.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Omega Man

[Guest Omega Man]

I agree. Even if it was marked "walk in the park", it is still dangerous to ride up a blind corner. Riders may argue that it has always been ok to ride up singletrack, but those days have passed.

 

I reckon 99% of the Vasbyt trail can be ridden up. but that berm. OMG someone is gonna get seriously hurt soon.

 

On Friday a few downhillers and myself were sessioning that bit of trail. We watched a dude on a green GT 29er Karakorum ride up that berm. I tried to tell him a guy was coming down but his IPOD was blaring away and he didn't hear.

 

Not 10 seconds later Julian comes hurtling down there.

[leet22]

I reckon 99% of the Vasbyt trail can be ridden up. but that berm. OMG someone is gonna get seriously hurt soon.

 

On Friday a few downhillers and myself were sessioning that bit of trail. We watched a dude on a green GT 29er Karakorum ride up that berm. I tried to tell him a guy was coming down but his IPOD was blaring away and he didn't hear.

 

Not 10 seconds later Julian comes hurtling down there.

I ride up Vasbyt to just before the jumps on the open section with all the logs and turn off to the jeep track. No idea why u want to ride up to the berm Its as rocky and stumpy as hell.

Must say though when riding up im always looking for ppl coming down and we always warn each other and move off the track even at the bottom part

[Guest Omega Man]

I ride up Vasbyt to just before the jumps on the open section with all the logs and turn off to the jeep track. No idea why u want to ride up to the berm Its as rocky and stumpy as hell.

Must say though when riding up im always looking for ppl coming down and we always warn each other and move off the track even at the bottom part

U sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. Where do you go back on to the jeeptrack? Right near that massive log right next to the track?

Edited May 30, 2011 by Omega Man