Prof Tim Noakes' U-turn on Carbohydrates

[dracs]

This editorial is high on balance and science and short on belief and opinion - and references many of the for and against studies...

 

http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/1/7.full

 

It is tempting to classify endurance and ultraendurance sports as submaximal exercise, which might benefit from increased fat utilization and a conservation of limited endogenous carbohydrate stores. However, the strategic activities that occur in such sports, the breakaway, the surge during an uphill stage, or the sprint to the finish line, are all dependent on the athlete's ability to work at high intensities. With growing evidence that this critical ability is impaired by dietary fat adaptation strategies and a failure to find clear evidence of benefits to prolonged exercise involving self-pacing, it seems that we are near to closing the door on one application of this dietary protocol. Scientists may remain interested in the body's response to different dietary stimuli and may hunt for the mechanisms that underpin the observed changes in metabolism and function. However, those at the coal-face of sports nutrition can delete fat loading and high-fat diets from their list of genuine ergogenic aids for conventional endurance and ultra-endurance sports.

[davetapson]

Haven't read all the preceding posts.

 

However, Joe Friel (who is a proponent of LCHF diet aka paleo) has written a book called something like Paleo diet for the Athlete. He recommends that just prior to, during and just after exercise that athletes consume carbs - in exactly the way that they do now (i.e. energy drinks etc). The bodies insulin response (which is what all this stuff boils down to anyway) is different when exercising as opposed to not exercising.

 

I think it is quoted somewhere in his book "The furnace that burns the fat is fuelled by carbs". So yes to Atkins / Paleo - but with the proviso that you take in carbs for exercise.

 

Noakes' comment is that although LCHF diets are ideally suited for carb intolerant people, non-carb intolerant people seem to gain more benefit from it that one would expect.

[Topwine]

This editorial is high on balance and science and short on belief and opinion - and references many of the for and against studies...

 

 

How do you come to this conclusion of yours ? Especially the "high on balance and short on belief and opinion" part ...

I'd suggest again, that you read ALL the literature out there, to really see the benefits of true keto adaption. 2.5 g/kg carbs is NOT low carb ! You will NOT keto-adapt on such a diet ... therefore experience no perceived performance benefit. The study was done wrong and possible too short in time frame as well.

 

Why don't you do it yourself, properly , for 3 months, THEN come back and give your opinion ?

[Topwine]

 

Noakes' comment is that although LCHF diets are ideally suited for carb intolerant people, non-carb intolerant people seem to gain more benefit from it that one would expect.

 

I would very much agree with this statement, as it definitely applies to me as well.

[jannosmit]

I've cut out sugar almost completely out of my diet for 2weeks now. Lost 3kgs already. 8-10 teaspoons of sugar in coffee per day is deadly. Also had no cravings anymore.

[Topwine]

I've cut out sugar almost completely out of my diet for 2weeks now. Lost 3kgs already. 8-10 teaspoons of sugar in coffee per day is deadly. Also had no cravings anymore.

 

Fantastic ! It's a great start. Now slowly wean yourself from most carbs, and see truly amazing things start to happen ...

[andydude]

Topwine, can you perhaps post a few days' food you consume as examples? And what's your favourite snacks? I'm just trying to understand how to go about eating less carbs and it's actually amazing how much carbs and sugars are in the products we eat.

 

For example, even if you use a little, Mrs Balls is almost 1/3rd sugar by weight! Dried fruits are also very high in carbs from sugar.

[Blokman]

Topwine, can you perhaps post a few days' food you consume as examples? And what's your favourite snacks? I'm just trying to understand how to go about eating less carbs and it's actually amazing how much carbs and sugars are in the products we eat.

 

For example, even if you use a little, Mrs Balls is almost 1/3rd sugar by weight! Dried fruits are also very high in carbs from sugar.

My problem also. I Scratch in the kitchen cupboards , just dont know where to start properly

[Topwine]

Topwine, can you perhaps post a few days' food you consume as examples? And what's your favourite snacks? I'm just trying to understand how to go about eating less carbs and it's actually amazing how much carbs and sugars are in the products we eat.

 

For example, even if you use a little, Mrs Balls is almost 1/3rd sugar by weight! Dried fruits are also very high in carbs from sugar.

 

You are right. I was also surprised to see how many sugar and carbs are in packaged foods. Read labels carefully.

Dried fruits are so nice, but high in sugar and carbs. I might eat 1 dried peach some days as a snack, if I did not eat other carb snacks during the day. Some days I eat 2 Pro-vitas as snack. Sometimes a slice of pitza or 3-4 strawberries. But I rarely snack. I eat a full breakfast of 3-4 fried eggs in a lot of butter topped with about 80 grams of gouda cheese, which I buy in bulk @ R45/kg. Lunch will be some kind of meat with olives and vegatables plus some cheese. Dinner pretty much the same. I love to stirfry veggies in a lot of olive oil. Delicious ! then there is sugar free jelly and cheescake for desserts. Coffee with lots of full fresh cream and no sugar ! Tea I drink with artificial sugar sometimes. I have added a little bit milk back as well since I keep losing weight and I have to stabilize at some point. My blood sugar is very low and constant now and very responsive to my body's insulin. BG only goes up to about 5.5 after meals and come down very fast back to 4 - 4.5.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Topwine

[andydude]

Thanks Topwine.

 

As I come across examples of things to eat, I'll post it here for everybody including some nutritional information.

[Topwine]

My problem also. I Scratch in the kitchen cupboards , just dont know where to start properly

 

It's a big problem. You basically have to rebuy your pantry (spens ) . Cheese and eggs have become a staple for me. Olives and olive oil as well. Ditto for Avocado's. Meats we rotate between bacon, fish, sardines, ham, beef , chicken, sausages etc, etc. I look for the meats with the MOST fat to buy! But they should have no carbs added.

[lyslexic]

Have also given this a try. 1week of no sugar and very little carbs and i'm 3.5kg down.

In just 1 week I feel great and by BP is now normal. The only downside is the headaches and light headed/high feeling but some salt seems to fix the headaches, jury is still out in the light headed/high feeling but no one has ever complained about getting high for free!

[andydude]

Fruithall - Almonds Raw 100g

 

Energy: 2415kJ

Protein: 21.2g

Carbs: 9g (of which 3.9g is sugar)

Fat: 49.4g (of which 43.0g is unsaturated & 3.7g is saturated)

[Jaco-fiets]

Topwine, can you perhaps post a few days' food you consume as examples? And what's your favourite snacks? I'm just trying to understand how to go about eating less carbs and it's actually amazing how much carbs and sugars are in the products we eat.

 

For example, even if you use a little, Mrs Balls is almost 1/3rd sugar by weight! Dried fruits are also very high in carbs from sugar.

 

Andy dude i can post you the diet schedule of 1 of my days in the week:

 

Meal 1: Breakfast: 100g mince (raw weight) / 15g coconut oil / 2 eggs / 30g cottage cheese

Meal 2 (10am): 30g nuts (peanuts or almonds or peacan or brazillian) / 30g whey protein

Meal 3: Lunch: 200g mince (or steak - raw weight) / 100g veggies / 30g mayo

Meal 4 (4pm): 20g nuts / 10g coconut oil

Meal 5: Dinnier: 200g chicken (or 250g fish) / 50g green leafy salad / 20g olive oil / some more salad dressing

Meal 6: 28g cream cheese / 20g whey protein / 15g flaxseed oil

 

Protein: 187g

Carbs: 25.3g

Fat: 153.4g

 

All food weights are raw weights

Edited November 5, 2012 by Jaco-fiets

[Topwine]

Have also given this a try. 1week of no sugar and very little carbs and i'm 3.5kg down.

In just 1 week I feel great and by BP is now normal. The only downside is the headaches and light headed/high feeling but some salt seems to fix the headaches, jury is still out in the light headed/high feeling but no one has ever complained about getting high for free!

 

I experienced the same the first 2 weeks. Added 2 grams of extra salt a day to a litre extra water a day. That fixed it for me. I also dehydrated quickly in this time. Now I dont take added salt anymore and the headaches/light headiness are long gone.

[HappyMartin]

Got a call from my doctor after all my blood tests. Have to meet with him to go over details but over the phone he said my blood sugar is great. Everything looks good except cholesterol which is almost 7.

 

Seven sounds bad, it is bad, and he wants me on medication. In the past it was 11. My doctor couldn't get me out the room fast enough. He was scared I would die on his premises. I was told to not bother buying green bananas. I got it down to below 5 with big weight loss, lots of exercise and no animal fats at all.

 

Now I eat butter, cheese, eggs, milk and so on but no flesh and my bloody cholesterol is back up to **** levels.

 

How will this fit in with the low carb diet? I cannot eat meat, cheese, eggs, butter or any carbs. Am I supposed to survive on carrots and olive oil or something?

 

I swear I will just kill myself now. This is making me nuts. Not sure I can even eat nuts actually.