How do I climb better

[Guest TheBushpig]

I think its about 120 - 140% HR.

I am very unfit as Im only starting to exercise again after a long lay off.

 

I am very familiar with this heart rate, haha. My age is, er, shall we call it 35 + VAT. I have been riding again for about 2 months after 2 years of no bike; the first month was absolute torture - pain, headaches, couldn't climb hills at all - the list goes on. Here are a few things(in no particular order) I found that made a huge difference to how I feel(and therefore ride):

1) I always have a small, easily digested Carb meal(30-60mins) before riding. Give your muscles something to work with. Nothing like coming to the bottom of that hill and you run out of steam. Bananas & fruit juice work for me - light but plenty of energy.

2) Hydrate fully before riding; drink plenty of water, but give it time(30mins or so) to get into your system before setting out.

3) Alcohol is pure poison for me; even a little the night before a ride = crappy ride, weak muscles, even small hills become a mission. Nasty truth for me.

4) Don't tell yourself that you suck at climbing/hate hills/anything negative. If I start to battle a bit on a hill, I just try to focus on BIBO(breathe in, breathe out) and ignore any little voice telling me to stop. Every metre is progress.

5) Don't slouch on your bike; doing so just compresses your chest, so you can't breathe properly. You must breathe properly.

6) Some weight training is part of my whole programme; the stronger(within reason of course) my whole body is, the better I cycle. The earlier suggestions of core work are spot on - very important. Strong Quads must be supported by a strong waist & lower back(and other bits), or they can hurt you. For me, deadlifts have made a big difference to the strength/stability in legs, butt, back and waist. The position used in a deadlift is very similar to that which you have when seated on a bike, and when you stand up on the pedals, and everything in between. For me, deadlifts are invaluable. Sometimes light weight & high reps, sometimes high weight & low reps.

7) Don't expect miracles. Put in the work, and progress will come. I ride every second morning before work, but squeeze in an extra ride whenever possible. Every ride is better than the last. Just don't give up.

8) Eat decent food; you need it to recover properly and build up what you hammer on a ride/in the gym. Eat soon after returning from a ride.

9) Drink lots of water. Especially if you're on a comeback from "unfitness". Resuming exercise also means your body will detox in a big and nasty way; you have you help it get rid of all the crap that piles up inside when we are being less active. I thought I would literally die in that first comeback month.

 

Ok, too much Yadayada from me. Not Hill - specific, but maybe something useful in there. Happy Training; Enjoy!

[fandacious]

any other comments i.e bump

 

Terry, let me know when you want to go ride hills and I'll come give you some pointers

[mtbvip]

One of the principles of training is specificity.Joe Friel advises athletes to cut non specific exercises as their training progresses . This could vary as we are all different.( Another principle is individuality.) So with your last sentence I can agree to some extent. However.If you apply the same principle, you ride hills to improve your climbing. You sprint to improve sprinting.That is a no brainer.

 

Some of the " nonsense " advice were given by cyclists that really know what they are talking about. (They are dof on other subjects.)

 

I have not read many, but I have yet to come across any training manual without at least a chapter just for hills.

 

Sure some of the power that you apply on the flats will translate into better climbing . But I cannot imagine the peloton going up the Col de Tourmalet on this advice. Or anybody tackling the Epic with it.

 

My intention was not to hurt the feelings of all the cyclists that really know what they are talking about. The point I was trying to make is that there is no well kept secret good cyclists (aka climbers) keep to themselves that enable them to power up hills. The key to being a good climber is a good power to weight ratio (i.e. more power and less fat). Most strong cyclists rarely run out of gears unless a climb has a gradient of more than 10 to 15%. This means that they can almost always maintain a comfortable cadence and rarely need to grind a heavy gear. Being able to push a heavy gear does not make you a good climber. The benefits of hill training does not come from the gradient you are riding up but rather the intensity (high heart rate / effort) of the training. The same benefit will be achieved from any similar level of intensity training, whether on the flat or on a trainer.

 

Cycling and running training is very different. In running you have one gear. Cycling allows you to change gears to maintain a steady cadence.

 

Regards,

The climbing idol.

[Wyatt Earp]

I reckon I should just cut it straight here after reading mtbvip's latest post.

 

The Hub is an immensely interesting place.

It's laced with fights and rule bending.

Here we have a thread which a Mod turned in to one about them self.

And don't try and tell me it's all good and that "there is lot's of input for the OP" from the latter posts.

 

The thread has been derailed from the original question in many ways.

 

Now mtbvip, your intentions to sign of as the Climbing Idol shows that you stripped your moer a bit, now I am rather confused by this.

Let me explain.

 

You made this post.

 

 

 

The best way to get better a climbing is to lose weight (if you have weight to lose) and simply get better at cycling: ride more and do more high intensity intervals. Whether you do the intervals on the the flat, a stationary trainer or an actual hill makes little difference as you use your gears to keep your cadence stable. Forget about all this nonsense of sitting back, sitting forward, pulling up or down, relaxing, getting a singlespeed and most importantly DO NOT START RUNNING MORE (doing more of another activity when you are not doing enough of cycling to start with is a no-brainer).

 

You mention losing weight to increase the power to weight ratio, that's exactly what all the hubbers suggested with their nonsensical input.

Then as highlighted in red, you give the impression that all the posters before you don't really know what they are talking about.

The way I see it, you dropped your hands, left your chin open for the punch and that's what you got.

 

Now you return with this.

 

 

 

My intention was not to hurt the feelings of all the cyclists that really know what they are talking about. The point I was trying to make is that there is no well kept secret good cyclists (aka climbers) keep to themselves that enable them to power up hills.1) The key to being a good climber is a good power to weight ratio (i.e. more power and less fat). Most strong cyclists rarely run out of gears unless a climb has a gradient of more than 10 to 15%. This means that they can almost always maintain a comfortable cadence and rarely need to grind a heavy gear.2) Being able to push a heavy gear does not make you a good climber. The benefits of hill training does not come from the gradient you are riding up but rather the intensity (high heart rate / effort) of the training. The same benefit will be achieved from any similar level of intensity training, whether on the flat or on a trainer.

 

Cycling and running training is very different. In running you have one gear.3) Cycling allows you to change gears to maintain a steady cadence.

 

Regards,

4)The climbing idol.

 

Now let me dissect it a little.

 

1)Yes, I agree fully and it echoes what we all said about losing weight.

2)Again quite true, however Ulrich might disagree.

3)Yes a steady cadence is what is needed, now this is why some here have suggested a single speed .

A SS is the one bike that teaches you leg speed and power and also keeps you honest.

Your disregard for the various body positions is also rather amusing, as a mtbVIP, you should know that positioning yourself correctly on the bike during steep climbs becomes rather crucial.

 

4)You did leave the door open, now take it on the chin.

 

Lastly , you don't mention core at all, many have suggested a good core workout, yes again another great bit of advice.

Running ?

Again, you give the impression that running is a total waste for those who cycle.

Running will do wonders for the cardio and ones ability to breathe better up climbs.

[jcmeyerSS]

I am trying to lose weight, 2 kg's to be exact, but it's been an 8 month battle.

dude you gonna fall through your own ass-ho1e if you lose any more weight

[Andymann]

I haven't been following the whole thread, but here's my "success" story to climbing:

I do long slow grinds on a cateye trainer once a week - "big" gear grinds - 53/12 increasing speed every 5 mins by dropping a gear and increasing cadence ending with a fast spin at the top of the session. The whole session lasts about an hour. I have the whole program if anyone is interested - given to me by a well known coach.

I strengthened my legs and lost weight by running every second day - not far, about 30min/5km. I did serious core exercises - about 30min per day, and also concentrated on doing the indoor training sets with my hands behind my back and leaning foreward - try it.

Finally I do conentrate on my position on the bike when climbing - especially my grip on the bars - my test: if i'm not able to wiggle my fingers when climbing, my grip is too tight.

Worked for me.

[Slowbee]

 

so here is todays ride, I did the exact same route as last time - kept everything the same, except, with no wind blowing I was able to go a little fast on the flat sections (the middle section).

 

legs a bit sore now, but I can feel that a few more weeks of this and I should be fine for S2C.

[Mads]

.

I did serious core exercises - about 30min per day, and also concentrated on doing the indoor training sets with my hands behind my back and leaning foreward - try it.

 

 

I actually tried that . Not as easy or as simple as it sounds. A real eye opener!

[gogo@]

Running will do wonders for the cardio and ones ability to breathe better up climbs.

Have to agree...

Although there's no way I can call myself a 'runner' (yet?). I spent a fair bit of time 'bouncing' up and down on a treadmill last winter to great benefit. I lost some weight and the power definitely went up. Instead of counting broken bottles at the side of the road to get up a long steep hill, I now whistle and look at the view - or go much much faster. Also started summer with a higher level of general fitness. But the BIG benefit was that I solved a knee problem that I was getting desperate about...

One mistake tho was not to cycle enough once the new season started. I then had a hard time getting the cycling muscles to catch up with where my fitness levels had got to. Because i tried to do it too fast and temptation was to run rather than cycle since i felt i could do more in less time. So watch the balance there.

Slippery slope.

Long short: include some running with hill work but do a hard ride before you do your (slower) run. Do both on the same day if possible or alternate but make sure you recover properly to be able to give it horns on the bike.

[gogo@]

And also...

I know the standard reply is: ride more - but sometimes it's not practical, and as I found, running had it's own benefits. So, am keen to hear what the 'real' runners do for cross-training with a focus on improving biking power tho - keeping the focus on getting stronger on hills so no hijack intended!

[TNT1]

I haven't been following the whole thread, but

 

Train harder, and find some stronger climbers to train with. When you can stay with them, find stronger ones, and so forth and so on.

[King_Crispy]

Seems like I was the only tool doing repeats at Northern Farms yesterday?

Richard, where were you???

[SwissVan]

 

so here is todays ride, I did the exact same route as last time - kept everything the same, except, with no wind blowing I was able to go a little fast on the flat sections (the middle section).

 

legs a bit sore now, but I can feel that a few more weeks of this and I should be fine for S2C.

 

Slowbee you need to indicate what your true max hr or LT hr is so we can see what intensity your doing the intervals at.

 

TBH based on that these are the first intervals youve done it looks like your riding to hard and to many intervals in one session (+/- 11) and per week (you did the 1st one on the 5th, next on 10th and another planned for 12th).

 

Your intervals could rather have a HR profile more like table mountain not needle mountain i.e. keep your HR in the zone for the entire interval length (your 3 hill intervals ranged between 160 - 180 bpm). Allthough this does depend on what your actual hr zones are based on true max hr or LT hr.

 

You say your legs are sore...well cycling should't really make your legs sore...tired yes and maybe just a little sore... so be carefull that you aren't pushing to hard a gear (grinding a big gear uphill at low cadence, low cadence = < 80 rpm). Make sure you give yourself time to recover in between hard rides. Dont do more than 2 of these hard rides per week, rather start off doing 1 per week (week = 7 consecutive days) and after 3 weeks have a easy week with no hill intervals

Edited April 10, 2012 by SwissVan

[Mads]

.

 

Thank You. This is a answer I can relate with, apply and learn from.

 

Practical and to the point.

[SwissVan]

, I will post my ride HR stuff next week when I do the sessions. Will try do them on Tuesday and Thursday

 

So wot happened, where is your hill interval for last week?

[mtbvip]

I reckon I should just cut it straight here after reading mtbvip's latest post.

 

The Hub is an immensely interesting place.

It's laced with fights and rule bending.

Here we have a thread which a Mod turned in to one about them self.

And don't try and tell me it's all good and that "there is lot's of input for the OP" from the latter posts.

 

The thread has been derailed from the original question in many ways.

 

Now mtbvip, your intentions to sign of as the Climbing Idol shows that you stripped your moer a bit, now I am rather confused by this.

Let me explain.

 

You made this post.

 

 

 

 

 

You mention losing weight to increase the power to weight ratio, that's exactly what all the hubbers suggested with their nonsensical input.

Then as highlighted in red, you give the impression that all the posters before you don't really know what they are talking about.

The way I see it, you dropped your hands, left your chin open for the punch and that's what you got.

 

Now you return with this.

 

 

 

 

 

Now let me dissect it a little.

 

1)Yes, I agree fully and it echoes what we all said about losing weight.

2)Again quite true, however Ulrich might disagree.

3)Yes a steady cadence is what is needed, now this is why some here have suggested a single speed .

A SS is the one bike that teaches you leg speed and power and also keeps you honest.

Your disregard for the various body positions is also rather amusing, as a mtbVIP, you should know that positioning yourself correctly on the bike during steep climbs becomes rather crucial.

 

4)You did leave the door open, now take it on the chin.

 

Lastly , you don't mention core at all, many have suggested a good core workout, yes again another great bit of advice.

Running ?

Again, you give the impression that running is a total waste for those who cycle.

Running will do wonders for the cardio and ones ability to breathe better up climbs.

 

The initial question Richard asked was: "I seem to climb at around 7 k/h on longer climbs, how can I get better physically? I do the position on the seat etc. my legs just don't want to allow me to keep the cadence high even in granny gear". I gave advice based on the question at hand. Sure, body position is important to prevent rear wheel loss of traction on loose or rocky climbs - Richard's question clearly suggests he knows about body position on climbs. His question related to his inability to maintain a high cadence (ie. lack of strength and fitness) and never about a lack of technical ability.

 

Your analogy of this discussion being a fistfight "take it on the chin" is misguided. I disagreed with some of the suggestions (including yours) and have already explained my reasons for this. Feel free to disagree with my suggestions. The fact that you misconstrued this as "a Mod making it about himself" is ironic: your direct attack on me have made you the "Mod making it about himself" and highlights a clearly fragile ego.

Edited April 21, 2012 by mtbvip