Grebel Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Excuse my ignorance regarding this subject but I have a question regarding shot times. I was under the impression that the ideal espresso shot time was around the 25-30 seconds for 25-30ml of espresso. This is the basis for most coffees. I drink mainly Americano's with a little milk. My ratio is usually equal parts espresso, boiling water and milk to get my fix. Recently had a cup at a mates place with a Nespresso machine. (I needed to taste what the fuss was about) I watched him make the cup. The espresso shot time was set by the machine. He then ran "another shot" through the same pod and added milk. Now my understanding was that if you over pull a shot it can adversely affect the taste and ruin your cup. I realise that you can slightly over run your shot by a few seconds and get a slightly more bitter flavour but isn't another 30 seconds just killing it? TBH I have had better cups made with Ricoffy instant....
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) They are on the list! Where can I get some matt cappuccino cups with black outside and white/cream insides? Similar to those at Woolies or Lucky Bread? Orphanespresso.com have some like that... made in Italy - I am 90% sure those are the same ones Woolies has - have a look. http://www.orphanesp...g_ep_615-1.html Edit - What about these? http://www.yuppiechef.com/le-creuset-coffee-and-tea.htm?id=6148&name=Le-Creuset-Cappuccino-Cup-and-Saucer-Set-of-2 Edited July 5, 2013 by V12man
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Excuse my ignorance regarding this subject but I have a question regarding shot times. I was under the impression that the ideal espresso shot time was around the 25-30 seconds for 25-30ml of espresso. This is the basis for most coffees. I drink mainly Americano's with a little milk. My ratio is usually equal parts espresso, boiling water and milk to get my fix. Recently had a cup at a mates place with a Nespresso machine. (I needed to taste what the fuss was about) I watched him make the cup. The espresso shot time was set by the machine. He then ran "another shot" through the same pod and added milk. Now my understanding was that if you over pull a shot it can adversely affect the taste and ruin your cup. I realise that you can slightly over run your shot by a few seconds and get a slightly more bitter flavour but isn't another 30 seconds just killing it? TBH I have had better cups made with Ricoffy instant.... It depends - but on a Nespresso machine using the same capsule twice is a sure fire way to make Ricoffy taste good - the pods only have about 7g of coffee in (yes - I weighed one) - which is a standard single espresso worth. Typically you would stop pulling a shot when it 'blondes' - the stream goes visibly lighter coloured - blonde is typically associated with being more bitter - although I don't believe that is universally accepted, it is an industry standard belief, and the few coffees I have tried it has always been more bitter - easy to do - just swap cups during a pour and taste them. Do yourself a favour and don't put boiling water in an espresso for an Americano - try 70 - 80 degree water and see how it changes the taste - you might like it, you might not. Grebel 1
Grebel Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks! To break down my "technique" a bit, what I should have said is that the kettle boils while I am pulling my shot. I load the double shot holder that came with the machine (Think it weighed out at around 12 grams of coffee). Tamp it and insert into the machine. I start the pump and time once the rats tail starts. Usually around 20-30 seconds. I will stop the shot as soon as the rats tail stops getting lighter (IOW let it run into the cup as it gets lighter but stop as soon as the colour change is not that drastic if that makes sense) I leave the cup to catch the few drips while I get the milk and sugar ready. Cup comes out and I add the boiled water that has been standing for a bit, (Should actually measure the temp...) sugar (1 spoon) and the milk and stir. Using this method, I get a nice smooth cup with a full rounded taste. Only using single origin beans at the moment (Ethiopia, Guatemala, Indonesia, Columbia). I tried the house blends at our local roaster but keep getting a chemical after taste so I tossed those to the curb.
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) I start the pump and time once the rats tail starts. Usually around 20-30 seconds. I will stop the shot as soon as the rats tail stops getting lighter (IOW let it run into the cup as it gets lighter but stop as soon as the colour change is not that drastic if that makes sense) Normally the timing starts from when you start the pump - and you would expect the stream to start within 5 - 6 seconds. There is a small variability depending on if you have a vibration pump or a rotary pump - with the vibe pump being slightly slower to build pressure. Stopping the shot and removing the cup as the stream blondes (immediately it blondes - which should be about 25 - 30 sec from starting the pump if you have grind and pressures correct) is the standard practice - try using several cups and swapping them every 5 seconds under the stream and then tasting them independently and you will get a good idea as the taste changes - David Schomer used to sell a narrow board with holes for multiple cups just for this purpose - he may still do... It is an interesting experiment anyway.. PS - you are allowed to spit it out if you don't like it... keep a bowl handy.... Edit - and FFS don't add sugar and milk before tasting.... good espresso is not bitter or sour. Edited July 5, 2013 by V12man Weight Weenie 1
Grebel Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Normally the timing starts from when you start the pump - and you would expect the stream to start within 5 - 6 seconds. There is a small variability depending on if you have a vibration pump or a rotary pump - with the vibe pump being slightly slower to build pressure. Stopping the shot and removing the cup as the stream blondes (immediately it blondes - which should be about 25 - 30 sec from starting the pump if you have grind and pressures correct) is the standard practice - try using several cups and swapping them every 5 seconds under the stream and then tasting them independently and you will get a good idea as the taste changes - David Schomer used to sell a narrow board with holes for multiple cups just for this purpose - he may still do... It is an interesting experiment anyway.. PS - you are allowed to spit it out if you don't like it... keep a bowl handy.... Edit - and FFS don't add sugar and milk before tasting.... good espresso is not bitter or sour. Thanks. Seems as though I am pulling a 35-40 second shot then.... To the best of my knowledge it is a vibe pump and it takes about that amount of time to build up pressure. So I should remove the cup as soon as it starts to lighten? I'll give it a go as soon as I get home. I'll start cutting the sugar and milk as well.... I have also coarsened the grind on my Aeropress and that made a world of difference!
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks. Seems as though I am pulling a 35-40 second shot then....Probably... To the best of my knowledge it is a vibe pump and it takes about that amount of time to build up pressure. So I should remove the cup as soon as it starts to lighten?You can hear a vibe pump vibrate - rotary pumps are only on commercial and high end prosumer machines pretty much. and they are nearly silent. Adjust the grind too so it goes blonde between 25 and 35 seconds after the pump starts, and remove the cup as soon as it blondes visibly. I'll start cutting the sugar and milk as well.... kick them to the girly side of the bed... get the milk for your cappa right and you won't need sugar - and you are allowed a maximum of 1 cap a day - before 10am - otherwise you have to sleep on the girly side... I have also coarsened the grind on my Aeropress and that made a world of difference!Aeropress seems to work best with grinder that suits press pots and drip machines... (which I don't have) very much an away from home toy for me - so not a lot of time invested in playing with it seriously, and my wife prefers the Bialetti... Weight Weenie 1
Uni Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 MAN YOU OKES TAKE YOUR COFFEE VERY SERIOUSLYwas thinking the exact same thing. I love a good cuppa and I can oooh and ahhhh over a pretty machine but blimey ... i respect my local barista much more after this. DIPSLICK 1
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 was thinking the exact same thing. I love a good cuppa and I can oooh and ahhhh over a pretty machine but blimey ... i respect my local barista much more after this. Trust me - we take it FAR more seriously than your average barista in SA... few of whom are any good at even the core competencies, and even fewer are good enough/know enough to be allowed to adjust grinders and machines to get the best from them - most coffee shops and restaurants just leave them the way the suppliers set them up - which at best will be ok. GBguy, Grebel and Uni 3
DIPSLICK Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Trust me - we take it FAR more seriously than your average barista in SA... few of whom are any good at even the core competencies, and even fewer are good enough/know enough to be allowed to adjust grinders and machines to get the best from them - most coffee shops and restaurants just leave them the way the suppliers set them up - which at best will be ok.MUST BE SUPER *** GETTING INVITED TO A MATES HOUSE AND HE WHIPS UP A CUP OF RICOFEE,(make mental note never invitE V12 for coffee Uni 1
Uni Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Trust me - we take it FAR more seriously than your average barista in SA... few of whom are any good at even the core competencies, and even fewer are good enough/know enough to be allowed to adjust grinders and machines to get the best from them - most coffee shops and restaurants just leave them the way the suppliers set them up - which at best will be ok. there needs to be a hubber barista off (?) - where you guys get to show off your skills and we get to taste?
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 MUST BE SUPER *** GETTING INVITED TO A MATES HOUSE AND HE WHIPS UP A CUP OF RICOFEE,(make mental note never invitE V12 for coffee I only have 1 mate who does that... - the rest have all been converted.... some more than others... but most things are vaguely drinkable with milk and sugar - I just ask for tea if they are coffee Neanderthals... DIPSLICK and Grebel 2
Uni Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 MUST BE SUPER *** GETTING INVITED TO A MATES HOUSE AND HE WHIPS UP A CUP OF RICOFEE,(make mental note never invitE V12 for coffeeoi. even I draw the line at ricoffee, but my mates have become somewhat coffee snobs - if we go to someone's house that doesn't have a nespresso - someone packs one along #SMH - and god forbid you don't have a french press.
Grebel Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 MUST BE SUPER *** GETTING INVITED TO A MATES HOUSE AND HE WHIPS UP A CUP OF RICOFEE,(make mental note never invitE V12 for coffee You laugh..... I will only drink coffee at home, my local roasters (Columbo) and anybody that I know who knows what they are doing. Life's too short for instant. A mate of my wife's has a Jura bean to cup machine (R10k plus)... The worst cup of coffee I have had in a VERY long time! Even worse than the dishwater Nespresso double shot! Came complete with microwave milk...... WTF?! Weight Weenie 1
V12man Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 there needs to be a hubber barista off (?) - where you guys get to show off your skills and we get to taste? Read the thread from the beginning.... I have an open invite to my office, and although I only have a small machine there I don't mind using it. Uni 1
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