Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[dracs]

Sorry, I am not getting you…

you said their sanctions were as per the rules. I admit I haven't actually read whatever rules we are talking about, but I would expect that once you have admitted or been found guilty generally your sanction is immediately effected. Instead all these guys were allowed to ride this year's tour, and then withdraw from the olympics (cos that would have opened up a serious can of worms), and then get given their backdated 6 months suspensions timed to be mostly in the off season!

 

Edit - OK corrected one incorrect assumpotion I made above...

Edited October 12, 2012 by dracs

[tombeej]

Someone made this comment.

 

If we reach back into the history of cycling to strip titles from the admitted or not quite clean dopers of the sport, we are going to discover empty podiums. Gone will be Anquetil, Merckyx, Indurain, Delgado, Moser, Fignon, Thevenet, Riis, Zabel, Basso, Marteens, Bataglilin, Zootemelk, Coppi, any German cyclist, many Spaniards most of the Italians. The list is in the hundreds. Most of these guys admitted their doping within the eight year statute of limitations so forget that out. The French remain humiliated that their system has not generated a champion since 1986 and that winner is a known question because he reneged on a deal with Greg Lemond. The grand Tours beg for doping. The demands are beyond expression. The pain and suffering is intense on a minor climb, forget the grand climbs of the Tour. Perhaps this is one way Greg LeMond gets the recognition he truly deserves in the sport of kings – the rest of the heroes are simply gone, ghosts in the hall of fame.

Cyclists do not start out as dopers. The juice finds us in our darkest hours. Hours like a too young 17 year old trying to finish a 171 mile stage in a pro-am tour, you have to make the time limit or you are out. Dope finds us in disputes with sponsors over a racing schedule that makes no sense to an athlete. It finds us when we cannot just hang on or hang in but when we have nothing in the tank and we have to drive tempo for our leader at the front of the peleton. It finds us simply because unlike many other professional team sports there are no substitutions. Over 21-days in the Tour it is unacceptable to have an off day or a day off. And then when the Tour is over, the nightly criterium schedule ramps up.

This pursuit of Lance is a joke. It relies on the subtleties of the definition of modern doping - abnormal levels of x relative to y. X is okay below threshold z and only if q is not present at all. Simple things were completely ignored like the presences of plastic residue from transfusion bags – too easy. WADA has the legacy of Dick Pound to live down and the USADA has more than its share of problems like medical exemptions granted with nary a question. We were all asthmatics; the medical evidence was irrefutable as all of us had trouble breathing under sustained exertion. USADA tell the truth – How many exemptions for Clenbuterol did you grant for world class athletes? Hundreds? Thousands? Or you do not have records or the dog ate them on the way to school?

The real tragedy of doping was in the late '80's and early 90's when 25 or so young riders died in their sleep of apparent heart failure. Hearts gave out when EPO boosted blood took on the consistency of toothpaste could not deliver oxygen to the body while the heart was at rest. It was an era of a silent killer creeping through young pros. Everyone stood by knowing but not really knowing as only a refined lawyer preparing for a deposition understands. Riders were waking themselves at night to exercise and get their heart rates up in fear they would otherwise die in their sleep and that fear was justified. USADA and WADA were silent because going along was easier than doing their job.

The current action by USADA and WADA is all theater to continue and perhaps perversely atone for the fight they ignored. It reminds me of the accounting firms that missed Worldcom, Enron and the Banking crisis of 2008. The regulator’s of this world care more about their position in the economic food chain than doing their job. They play go along get along until the price of go along gets in the way of maintaining their position in the economic food chain.

I sense cycling is improving. The indicators are simple. Average speeds are no longer increasing; team tempo riding has diminished in both duration and intensity. The days of eight drones at the front of the peleton boiling off one hundred or more other athletes while protecting their leader appear on the wane. Only the organizers fail to get it. They keep creating ever more brutal and diabolical stages (Tour of Italy 2012).

I care for the future of the sport, not the past. The regulators knew what was happening and took the easy view at the time– he passed the test. Conveniently reacquired virtue does not create an excuse to destroy those that worked within the system WADA mis-managed in the past. They were happy with the standard then, they need to live with it now. WADA could have helped Pantani and so many, many others, but instead they played along because they perceived getting along was more important than looking out for the athlete.

I love the sport, nothing is more enjoyable than the relaxed hour or two deep in the peleton chatting it up at the beginning of a long stage, and nothing is more gratifying than any finish line intermediate, stage, mountain top or the Champs Elysee. I pray for the success of young Peter Stetina and Taylor Phinney and hope they are able to realize what their fathers could only dream. Lance did great things for this sport against insurmountable odds, let him go. Americans simply fail to understand how deeply affected the French are by the fact that their system has not produced a winner since 1986. USADA should be a pawn in the healing of their annual humiliation. French riders have never resisted doping in pursuit of a pure victory – just ask Anquetil, Virenque or Fignon. Let’s clear the path for a new generation and hold WADA and USADA accountable to that future and not the past that they both so clearly missed with eyes wide open.

This action and the recent DOJ action is so small and childish. It is time to balance the act. Keep an eye on the riders, but go after the sponsors for the insane schedules and go after the organizers for the sequential climbs and insane time trials.

 

I'm just replying to bclark's email on page 1 of this thread - for those who have not read it.

 

It seems to have been a comment published in the Washington Post from (probably) and ex USA pro back in June some time.

 

It gives some insight into something else besides the grand tours that organisers try to make harder each year: the racing schedule that sponsors insist on so that they get their maximum bang-for-buck.

 

Now before some schmo decides to jump on my back about how I might be trying to justify a rider's decision to dope, all I'm suggesting is that part of a TRC process might be to include whether the packed (and ever expanding) international race schedule - where teams are are obliged to enter everything to satisfy their pay masters - is a contributing factor. An example now is the Tour of Beijing when the season should really be over.

 

I have no idea, just asking the question.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

With the longstanding prevailing culture in the sport, I can back you on that.

 

Would you make the same assertion about Vaugthers and the Garmin-Sharp team?

They've had reasonable success.

I want to be hopeful and positive that this team, as an example, is different.

 

Just like SKY was supposed to be different, just like Slipstream was supposed to be different?

 

Come on dude.

[Eldron]

 

 

i'll go out on a limb and say it - sky are just as dirty as the rest. Wiggo can call everyone bone idle wankers, and swear and shout as much as he likes, but i'll wager that he and his luitenants will be busted within the next 12 months

 

+1

 

All thats changed in the last 100 years of cycling is the method of cheating.

 

First it was trains and cars ferrying cyclists to the next stop where they'd jump on their bikes and carry on.

Then it turned chemical with "uppers" being all the rage.

From the it became cocktails - pot belge and the like - pain killers and uppers WHOOOOOO!

Then it all got a bit medical with blood being removed - possible oxygenated and put back. Me but better!

Then came the era of the increasing the amount of red blood corpuscles. More oxygen in the same blood? Wicked!

Next? Genetic level doping I reckon.

 

Is the peleton cleaner in my opinion? Hell no. Just smarter.

[jcza]

I'm willing to give Garmin a chance seeing that they appear to be transparent.

[jcza]

On another note - Today Andy Schleck was 137 out of 137 at 17,03 minutes. But he finished!

[EZRider]

I am sure you are trying to make some sort of point but confess I have no idea what it is?

 

I think for myself.

 

Thinking for yourself doesn't seem to be working then...

 

To clarify: You inferred the others were weak to be influenced by Lance into doping. Are you surprised he was able to influence people?

He is a cheat, a liar and a fraud and yet there are a host of supporters on the Hub crying foul and asking: why him? what about the others? it isn't fair? let the past be the past? he has helped people!

Look past what is or isn't happening to others and see his infringement for what it is. Ask yourself about the rights of athletes that refuse to cheat, athletes with integrity.

That would add weight to your "I can think for myself" statement.

 

Has that helped?

[jcza]

Armstrong to Vaughters in 1998: “If I ever have a doping problem, I can always play the cancer card.” http://twitpic.com/b3cq9g

 

Cancellara: "Because of Lance Armstrong, the first years of my career were wasted." This and more strong words by Fabian http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1297/Doping-In-Wielrennen/article/detail/1515563/2012/10/12/Cancellara-Bruyneels-naam-valt-129-keer-op-200-pagina-s.dhtml

 

Links in dutch

[Shebeen]

i'll go out on a limb and say it - sky are just as dirty as the rest. Wiggo can call everyone bone idle wankers, and swear and shout as much as he likes, but i'll wager that he and his luitenants will be busted within the next 12 months

I don't think you can say that...this is not a black and white scenario. I can't say it this well in the Queen's "die diepte van die *** wissel net"

 

What we do know is that the peloton has got slower, and evidence points towards less systematic team doping since ~2007ish.

We also know that Sky have got the biggest budget and threw a lot of science and brains at a large squad.

We do know that these guys don't exactly have pronutro for brekkies and go for a spin around the block.

 

Are Sky cheating, or pushing the limits...you're just guessing.

['Dale]

I'm willing to give Garmin a chance seeing that they appear to be transparent.

 

They're pretty clear that Hesjedal won the Giro as a 'clean' rider.

I wanna back them too.

[Wyatt Earp]

['Dale]

On another note - Today Andy Schleck was 137 out of 137 at 17,03 minutes. But he finished!

 

gummibear will be happy about that.

 

Andy said that his 2013 campaign started with the Tour of Beijing.

[dracs]

Thinking for yourself doesn't seem to be working then...

 

ouch. someone isulted me on the hub - I am going to have to take the rerst of the day off.

 

 

 

To clarify: You inferred the others were weak to be influenced by Lance into doping. Are you surprised he was able to influence people?

He is a cheat, a liar and a fraud and yet there are a host of supporters on the Hub crying foul and asking: why him? what about the others? it isn't fair? let the past be the past? he has helped people!

Look past what is or isn't happening to others and see his infringement for what it is. Ask yourself about the rights of athletes that refuse to cheat, athletes with integrity.

That would add weight to your "I can think for myself" statement.

 

Has that helped?

No I wasn't inferring they were weak, I was inferring that they are liers. As is Lance and as Contador and as are all those staying under the radar.

 

Thanks for the suggestion but I am not a fan of bandwagons.

['Dale]

Just like SKY was supposed to be different, just like Slipstream was supposed to be different?

 

Come on dude.

 

Yeah, that's what I am wondering about. Hence, "I want to be hopeful...".

Really wanna believe in a 'clean' team.

[Wyatt Earp]

They're pretty clear that Hesjedal won the Giro as a 'clean' rider.

I wanna back them too.

 

I would love to give them all the benefit of the doubt, but I have lost my faith in this sport and it's credibly at the competitive levels.

['Dale]

I would love to give them all the benefit of the doubt, but I have lost my faith in this sport and it's credibly at the competitive levels.

 

Yeah, man.

True.

 

I wanna believe.

 

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