EPO as a recreational cyclist

[Agteros]

you see, that is the point. where is the line now ? All people who have asthma not to be allowed to compete in cycling races. surely they have unfair advantage over those that don't have asthma ... ???

Rynard Tissink had a TUE for his asthma pump... He participated with it, tucked into his singlet....

[Agteros]

I have a natural hematocrit higher than rider A but have asthma and rider A don't have asthma. I am allowed to take something for my asthma, rider A are not allowed to take something for his lower hematocrit ... double standards .

The idea of an asthma pump is to return lung function/breathing to 'normal' - as all it does is stop the swelling (due to inflamation) of the airways.

Surely with the biological passport a higher than normal hematocrit will eventually show as normal - it will fluctuation somewhat from day to day and test to test, and not be pegged at 0.01 below the 'MAX' at all times...

 

Athletes do seem to pick up EIA asthma easier than the normal population, and the reason that is generally given for that is that the airways of an athlete is exposed to irritants(pollution/cold air/etc) more that that of a sedentary person?

[Agteros]

Out of interest, what does the rules of cycling/CSA say? Is EPO on the banned list and if yes, can it be taken if you have a medical reason?

 

I know about the asthma thing where more than half of the pro field "has" asthma and can use the pump for "medical reasons".

Doubt you'll be up to exercising, nevermind competing, if your red blood counts are low enough to warrant the use of EPO....

 

I suffered from anemia a few years ago (and had super low iron levels/red blood cell count/shape/size, etc). medication, nor iron injections never featured to fix it.

 

I went from running half marathons comfortably to not being able to jog 100m due to anemia. All the docs gave me were instructions to drink iron tablets.

[Topwine]

The idea of an asthma pump is to return lung function/breathing to 'normal' - as all it does is stop the swelling (due to inflamation) of the airways.

Surely with the biological passport a higher than normal hematocrit will eventually show as normal - it will fluctuation somewhat from day to day and test to test, and not be pegged at 0.01 below the 'MAX' at all times...

 

Athletes do seem to pick up EIA asthma easier than the normal population, and the reason that is generally given for that is that the airways of an athlete is exposed to irritants(pollution/cold air/etc) more that that of a sedentary person?

 

the question is, What is "normal" Normal hematocrit of populations living at high altitude is far higher than those living at sea level. Going to punish those athletes living at high altitudes now ? Same for definiton of asthma. some doctors are far more "willing" than other to define asthma leniently and such athletes get a boost from their pumps ...

[FootballingCyclist]

To me, recreational/social cyclists would use EPO as a EGO booster...so instead of a 4hr30 Argus, they do a 3hr50 Argus and beat all their mates and now have bragging rights for the next however long, now no-one knows u using it, so u are now the "main ou/ the Mr Wiggins" to all your buddies because they have no idea how you did a sub 4 Argus because you all did the same training together!!! It's the same as a recreational/social golfer, shoots 90+ plus through 18 but somehow has 80 on his scorecard, all his shots that you were convinced went into the bushes and were lost balls, somehow seem to be found and have a nice lie and a clear line in to the green, 50 yards further than where his ball actually went into the water or outa bounds.....

 

I believe all it is for recreational/social cyclists is an EGO booster and is used to achieve bragging rights amongst friends!!

Just my opinion...

['Dale]

on my first sani2c I had my first doubt that I was a doper.

 

I had fallen a week before the start, badly hurt my knee. During Sani I was taking pain pills, anti inflam pills and I took alot of them. I used them to just finish. But without them I doubt I would have finished. I am sure if I was tested I would have been banned from even walking into a pharmacy again, let alone the sport. The question I always ask, was I cheating ? Does not matter that we came 3rd last. It matters to me that I "cheated".

 

The truth comes out.

First David George, now you.

I was wondering who's next.

 

 

 

 

[Agteros]

the question is, What is "normal" Normal hematocrit of populations living at high altitude is far higher than those living at sea level. Going to punish those athletes living at high altitudes now ? Same for definiton of asthma. some doctors are far more "willing" than other to define asthma leniently and such athletes get a boost from their pumps ...

All true, but for an Asthma TUE application (and approval) you need more than just "my doctor said so". Things like spirometer tests, etc. Yes it can still be 'faked' but I imagine that WADA or their agents can request/do an independt test to very things if they seem out of wack?

[Lucky Luke.]

the question is, What is "normal" Normal hematocrit of populations living at high altitude is far higher than those living at sea level. Going to punish those athletes living at high altitudes now ? Same for definiton of asthma. some doctors are far more "willing" than other to define asthma leniently and such athletes get a boost from their pumps ...

 

Why not apply for a TUE from drug free sport, then come back here and tell us how it went.

[Topwine]

Why not apply for a TUE from drug free sport, then come back here and tell us how it went.

 

Sport will NEVER be drug free !! Just face that fact and move on. Stop worshipping those supposedly godly athletes and focus more on living healthier and longer yourself. If that means taking EPO recreationally, so be it.

['Dale]

The South Easter was kicking my azzzz this morning on a ride.

I really needed some Evening Primrose Oil.

[tombeej]

To me, recreational/social cyclists would use EPO as a EGO booster...so instead of a 4hr30 Argus, they do a 3hr50 Argus and beat all their mates and now have bragging rights for the next however long, now no-one knows u using it, so u are now the "main ou/ the Mr Wiggins" to all your buddies because they have no idea how you did a sub 4 Argus because you all did the same training together!!! It's the same as a recreational/social golfer, shoots 90+ plus through 18 but somehow has 80 on his scorecard, all his shots that you were convinced went into the bushes and were lost balls, somehow seem to be found and have a nice lie and a clear line in to the green, 50 yards further than where his ball actually went into the water or outa bounds.....

 

I believe all it is for recreational/social cyclists is an EGO booster and is used to achieve bragging rights amongst friends!!

Just my opinion...

 

Spot on - that's exactly how it is.

 

And those same people, who let's say are aiming to get under 3:30 from a 4:30 the year before, know that they'll never ever be tested, so they're 100% safe. Ergo, no issue for them at all.

 

And it's not a tiny minority as some ostriches still like to tell themselves. These days it's a sizable chunk of people.

 

And then there are also the mtb ostriches who think that it's a roadie thing only. I remember in the mid '90s our mtb races were relatively few and far between. And most weren't that long then. Typical races like the Spring Classic and Logwood Classic in JHB were max 45-50km. Since returning to the sport a few years ago I've found it's totally different - a race every weekend, but also a lot longer, but more importantly now the advent of mtb stage races. The new craze of multi-day mtb stages races are very fertile soil for a PED epidemic.

[rattlesnake]

But why ? Some would say the same about you taking medicine like antibotics or something else. Eating sugar, etc. I am more interested in your reasoning than your opinion.

 

 

 

Again. Why would someone be an idiot by using EPO responsibly ?

 

Because it is C-H-E-A-T-I-N-G..... How would you feel if someone used a motorised bicycle in a race against you.

Bottom line is many of us train damn hard to get results and take offence when the rules of the game are broken.

 

And why would you want to take it anyway if you weren't competitive or you didn't want to do well - you can't sell me on taking it just for the fun of it?? And in doing so you will be throwing mud in the eyes of all the clean riders out there.

 

You wanna take other supplements that are borderline, I don' t really care because at an amateur level the % difference they make is minimal - EPO is a game changer though, it turns donkeys into prize winning race horses.

[Spinnekop]

Spot on - that's exactly how it is.

 

And those same people, who let's say are aiming to get under 3:30 from a 4:30 the year before, know that they'll never ever be tested, so they're 100% safe. Ergo, no issue for them at all.

 

And it's not a tiny minority as some ostriches still like to tell themselves. These days it's a sizable chunk of people.

 

And then there are also the mtb ostriches who think that it's a roadie thing only. I remember in the mid '90s our mtb races were relatively few and far between. And most weren't that long then. Typical races like the Spring Classic and Logwood Classic in JHB were max 45-50km. Since returning to the sport a few years ago I've found it's totally different - a race every weekend, but also a lot longer, but more importantly now the advent of mtb stage races. The new craze of multi-day mtb stages races are very fertile soil for a PED epidemic.

 

OK....I'll bite.

And yes, I am naive in general, still believing that most people are good.

 

I am 35. Race as much as I can. Avg of 25 races a year, thus every 2nd weekend about.

I have done plenty stage races.

Plenty one days.

MTB and road

 

I train 15-20 hours a week. Ride every day.

3 weeks of intervals. 1 week rest.

I can keep up with most pro's in this country in a bunch. Does it mean I dope?

 

And it's not a tiny minority as some ostriches still like to tell themselves. These days it's a sizable chunk of people.

 

Really? You really think it is? Last I heard it was like R2000 a pop. I train hard and kick the sizable chunk's ass without dope. So from my point of view.....no........it is not sizable.....as long as I can still wipp ass out there every now and again, I KNOW that most of them also ride clean. And I do NOT push out watts like the pros.

 

The new craze of multi-day mtb stages races are very fertile soil for a PED epidemic.

 

Hahahhahaha.......BAHHAhHAHAHAHHA..

Stage racing is about conditioning your body. Preperation. If you have ever competed in them, cleanly, you would know what your body does and do and can do and can't do. Going flat box for 9 days without dope has been done. Plenty times. You just have to train hard and get your head around the pain barrier.

 

So an EPIDEMIC?

BHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

[Red Zone]

Was just on The Science of Sport website, this ad popped up, funny

 

EPO Cyclist Supplements

Fastest Way to Increase Your Endurance and Speed - Guaranteed!

www.EPOBoost.com

[JA-Q001]

I think they must just as well close down all hospitals and stop all medical research, then natural selection can take its corse again and these idiots will be worked out automatically!

[EZRider]

 

 

You have given no proof. You quoted the perspective of a drug salesman ! You should know I am definitely not lazy. I welcome scientific debate, not hearsay ... People that die from heroine and cocaine are definitely not using it responsibly. You still don't get my point ... People die from alcohol abuse, that does not prevent millions of people from using it "responsibly " Red wine has proven benefits as well. EPO is prescribed in many cases for proven benefits, if used responsibly. Please do educate yourself. Google is free, as you say.

 

You are arguing for the sake of it.

You don't eat carbs but ask me to prove EPO is bad for you?

I don't care enough about this to continue.

Have fun.