LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[P.A.K.]

mmm lekker processed meat... Note the additiveS (starch, corn syrup etc.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzUm7UEEIY

Edited November 11, 2013 by P.A.K.

[Riaanvt]

Just a quick thought on the lactose-free dairy products:

 

I've tried both the milk and the yoghurt from Woolworths (just out of curiosity really!) and they're both good, albeit sweeter than lactose-containing equivalents, purely because the relative sweetness of lactose is less than glucose and galactose.

 

Just remember, even though it says lactose free, it doesn't mean it contains zero sugar.

 

Specifically considering the Woolworths products, when I looked at the food label of the milk, it stated that it contained zero sugars (which I suppose could be true if the lactose had actually been removed in totality). If you then considered the ingredients listed (cow's milk, lactase), it is of course impossible to not have any sugar in the milk, as the addition of the enzyme lactase has merely split the disaccharide, lactose, into its monosaccharides, i.e. galactose and glucose.

 

I queried Woolworths on this and they said that they would address the issue and correct the label (haven't checked up on them yet!).

[DomJBo]

Just a quick thought on the lactose-free dairy products:

 

I've tried both the milk and the yoghurt from Woolworths (just out of curiosity really!) and they're both good, albeit sweeter than lactose-containing equivalents, purely because the relative sweetness of lactose is less than glucose and galactose.

 

Just remember, even though it says lactose free, it doesn't mean it contains zero sugar.

 

Specifically considering the Woolworths products, when I looked at the food label of the milk, it stated that it contained zero sugars (which I suppose could be true if the lactose had actually been removed in totality). If you then considered the ingredients listed (cow's milk, lactase), it is of course impossible to not have any sugar in the milk, as the addition of the enzyme lactase has merely split the disaccharide, lactose, into its monosaccharides, i.e. galactose and glucose.

 

I queried Woolworths on this and they said that they would address the issue and correct the label (haven't checked up on them yet!).

 

At that stage Riaan I hadn't even come across lchf yet so I was just simply enjoying the yoghurt for what it was. I don't generally eat a lot of it as it is though.

[DaleE]

Some further studies demonstrating the beneficial effect of fruit, especially Orange Juice.

 

Hmmm ... neither of these actually show that OJ is good for you ...

 

In the first one, the question they were trying to answer was wether "caloric intake in any form induces oxidative stress and inflammation and whether the type of response is determined by the source of these calories" In other words, they are taking a scientific look at the question of "are all calories equal?"

The answer is clearly "No". they compared OJ to glucose and found that the OJ has less inflammatory response to the glucose. It does not mean that OJ is good for you ... just better than glucose!

 

The second one is a bit confusing ... confusing because you wonder who pays for this sort of weird logic! Let me explain ...

They give a bunch of folk a Hi Fat Hi Carb meal "egg-muffin and sausage-muffin sandwiches and 2 hash-brown potatoes" Any dietician would tell you to stay away from that sort of stuff, but anyway, they made the subjects eat this junk and then measured inflammatory response which was significant. No real surprises there.(I could have told them that for free

​They then gave the folk OJ to drink and the inflammatory response was reduced.

So ...

What they have proved is that OJ reduces the effects of junk food ... can you hear the approaching marketing campaign?

What they have not proved (actually didn't TRY to do), is that if you eat correctly, OJ will have any effect. In other words, if you eat non-inflamitory foods, what does the OJ do?

 

​Now. please don't think I hate OJ. I think it's a great food, full of vitamins and flavanoids and other good things ... just don't try to make it something it's not.

[DaleE]

mmm lekker processed meat... Note the additiveS (starch, corn syrup etc.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzUm7UEEIY

 

Yup, and if you ever have someone tell you marg is better than butter, just go visit a marg factory ... it's grey gloop until they add the yellow colourant.

[Topwine]

Hmmm ... neither of these actually show that OJ is good for you ...

 

In the first one, the question they were trying to answer was wether "caloric intake in any form induces oxidative stress and inflammation and whether the type of response is determined by the source of these calories" In other words, they are taking a scientific look at the question of "are all calories equal?"

The answer is clearly "No". they compared OJ to glucose and found that the OJ has less inflammatory response to the glucose. It does not mean that OJ is good for you ... just better than glucose!

 

The second one is a bit confusing ... confusing because you wonder who pays for this sort of weird logic! Let me explain ...

They give a bunch of folk a Hi Fat Hi Carb meal "egg-muffin and sausage-muffin sandwiches and 2 hash-brown potatoes" Any dietician would tell you to stay away from that sort of stuff, but anyway, they made the subjects eat this junk and then measured inflammatory response which was significant. No real surprises there.(I could have told them that for free

​They then gave the folk OJ to drink and the inflammatory response was reduced.

So ...

What they have proved is that OJ reduces the effects of junk food ... can you hear the approaching marketing campaign?

What they have not proved (actually didn't TRY to do), is that if you eat correctly, OJ will have any effect. In other words, if you eat non-inflamitory foods, what does the OJ do?

 

​Now. please don't think I hate OJ. I think it's a great food, full of vitamins and flavanoids and other good things ... just don't try to make it something it's not.

 

Wow, not sure I follow your logic. You think OJ is "a great food" and then also say it is not good for you ?

 

In the first study they clearly show NO increase in inflammation when ingesting OJ or fructose (!), whereas significantly with glucose. They previously also showed significant increases in inflammation when ingestion a high fat diet, and it is also known that a high meat (protein) diet also increases inflammation. So, comparatively then OJ IS a great food if you want to limit inflammation, which should be high on every one's agenda.

 

The second study merely went further into the investigation of whether OJ might actually DECREASE inflammation caused by other diet intakes. This was proven as well, which in my mind anyway makes OJ a great food on another count, because obviously you can't live on OJ alone, but at least it decreases inflammation caused by other dietary ingestions.

 

It is amazing how people's "beliefs" influance the way they see life and causes them to see things always in a certain way and ignores the counter evidence to their beliefs.

[DaleE]

Wow, not sure I follow your logic. You think OJ is "a great food" and then also say it is not good for you ?

Nope, that's not what I said. I said it's a great food, but not as a cure all for inflammation ... in other words, don't make it something it's not.

 

You and I clearly disagree on what these studies prove, that's ok. I don't believe that anyone here is following the kind of hi fat high carb diets used for the studies (go have another look at the kinds of fat they ate), so I question how applicable it is to those of us who follow a LCHF diet where the fats are of the healthy variety.

Also, some time there was discussion of hi-protein diets. The general consensus here was that hi-protein is not good ... you're preaching to the converted.

 

It is amazing how people's "beliefs" influance the way they see life and causes them to see things always in a certain way and ignores the counter evidence to their beliefs.

I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult, or a general comment on mankind

Yes, everyone has their own beliefs based on their history or circumstances - in all things in life. I have a belief of what works for me, as do you. That's what makes debate worthwhile.

No-one is ignoring the evidence, but in this case, I believe the study and the resulting evidence is of little value and I have expressed my opinion as such. You're free to disagree.

[Topwine]

Nope, that's not what I said. I said it's a great food, but not as a cure all for inflammation ... in other words, don't make it something it's not.

 

You and I clearly disagree on what these studies prove, that's ok. I don't believe that anyone here is following the kind of hi fat high carb diets used for the studies (go have another look at the kinds of fat they ate), so I question how applicable it is to those of us who follow a LCHF diet where the fats are of the healthy variety.

Also, some time there was discussion of hi-protein diets. The general consensus here was that hi-protein is not good ... you're preaching to the converted.

 

 

I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult, or a general comment on mankind

Yes, everyone has their own beliefs based on their history or circumstances - in all things in life. I have a belief of what works for me, as do you. That's what makes debate worthwhile.

No-one is ignoring the evidence, but in this case, I believe the study and the resulting evidence is of little value and I have expressed my opinion as such. You're free to disagree.

 

Dale, I don't mean to insult you, merely point out how people tend to view facts through their own lens of belief system and how that tend to influence their logic and how they then discount evidence to fit their own belief system.

 

I don't know what information you have other than me (please share if you do ) or what is included in the study, but egg muffin sounds like healthy fat to me ! Also, the fat in sausage muffin will probably be beaf or lard fat, which is also healthy IF the lard is from pigs raised NOT on grains. The purpose of the study was not to say that OJ is the mother of ALL inflammation reductions, but merely proved that OJ taken with a mixed meal of HFHC variety, not unfamiliar to many people's daily diet, is effective in preventing or reducing the inflammatory effect. Clearly that is positive and how people can distort their reality to think this is NOT good, or is of little value, defy common sense.

 

The authors also previously have shown that a mixed meal of HFHC on it's own, without OJ, increases inflammation. The OJ study followed later from that.

http://ajcn.nutritio...t/79/4/682.long

 

Even before that they have shown that either a protein diet alone or a fat diet alone, each causes significant increases in inflammation. It is particular interesting that the fat they used in this study was cream (!) , which is considered very healthy on this thread.

http://ajcn.nutritio...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

 

So again, it is helpful,( but difficult if you are biased ), to consider ALL the evidence objectively.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Topwine

[Leon Besaans]

Morning guys,

 

Why am I always flippen starving about an hour or so after breakfast. I generally have some fruit (2 pieces), 3 eggs, 2 cups of coffee with cream and a tablespoon of coconut oil?? And generally after that I am satisfied, dont need to eat more at that point??

 

Any help please.

 

Regards

[htone]

Morning guys,

 

Why am I always flippen starving about an hour or so after breakfast. I generally have some fruit (2 pieces), 3 eggs, 2 cups of coffee with cream and a tablespoon of coconut oil?? And generally after that I am satisfied, dont need to eat more at that point??

 

Any help please.

 

Regards

 

Have less fruit and more oil - seriously.

Save the fruit for later, I am not saying don't eat it, but the fructose in the fruit interrupts your satiety signal, which means that you feel hungry again shortly afterwards.

Do an experiment tomorrow, change nothing, just leave the fruit out initially then see how that works for you !

[DaleE]

Why am I always flippen starving about an hour or so after breakfast. I generally have some fruit (2 pieces), 3 eggs, 2 cups of coffee with cream and a tablespoon of coconut oil?? And generally after that I am satisfied, dont need to eat more at that point??

 

Just a guess, coffee is a stimulant .... is that not possibly upsetting the satiety signal? 2 coffees in one sitting maybe one too many.

[jcza]

Morning guys,

 

Why am I always flippen starving about an hour or so after breakfast. I generally have some fruit (2 pieces), 3 eggs, 2 cups of coffee with cream and a tablespoon of coconut oil?? And generally after that I am satisfied, dont need to eat more at that point??

 

Any help please.

 

Regards

 

Add butter to eggs, leave the fruit and add some cheese or meat.

[Sniffie]

Regarding home made dairy kefir:

Any one including it in their diet? How much do you need for the full pro biotic effect? Any effect on blood glucose? With regards to weight since including it, up, down or stable. How far do you guys let it ferment before using it? Will kefir that has been fermenting for longer have less lactose and thus have a smaller effect on BG?

[Riaanvt]

Morning guys,

 

Why am I always flippen starving about an hour or so after breakfast. I generally have some fruit (2 pieces), 3 eggs, 2 cups of coffee with cream and a tablespoon of coconut oil?? And generally after that I am satisfied, dont need to eat more at that point??

 

Any help please.

 

Regards

I often have a 3-egg omelette with cheddar cheese and ham (with 2-3 coffees...) which keeps me going until late in the afternoon, around 16:00-17:00.

[htone]

Regarding home made dairy kefir:

Any one including it in their diet? How much do you need for the full pro biotic effect? Any effect on blood glucose? With regards to weight since including it, up, down or stable. How far do you guys let it ferment before using it? Will kefir that has been fermenting for longer have less lactose and thus have a smaller effect on BG?

 

Sniffie, I tried it for about 2 months but have discontinued it as it definitely (a) resulted in an increase in my BG similar to that of normal milk and (B) contributed to weight gain (in my opinion).

 

I tried fermenting for various lengths of time, but that made no difference to the BG effect (I also thought that the lactose would be completely digested but clearly not so). I can say that it had a great regulatory effect on my digestive system, but I felt that the resultant "negatives" wrt to BG and weight made it less than a perfect choice for me.

[Sniffie]

Sniffie, I tried it for about 2 months but have discontinued it as it definitely (a) resulted in an increase in my BG similar to that of normal milk and ( B) contributed to weight gain (in my opinion).

 

I tried fermenting for various lengths of time, but that made no difference to the BG effect (I also thought that the lactose would be completely digested but clearly not so). I can say that it had a great regulatory effect on my digestive system, but I felt that the resultant "negatives" wrt to BG and weight made it less than a perfect choice for me.

Thanks HTone!

 

Although I don't measure BG, wrt to weight I have had similar experiences. I would love to continue using it as it is supposedly one of the best probiotics one can take, and cheap as dirt!

Edited November 12, 2013 by Sniffie